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View Diary: My Daughter's Chilling Account of Years at Holocaust Museum (353 comments)

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  •  another genre of conspiracy theory freaks (4+ / 0-)
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    oldjohnbrown, sc kitty, dconrad, kyril

    Prominent Rabbi Blasts Obama

    Rabbi Dr. Morten H Pomerantz charges that Obama is:

    ... most certainly creating a climate of hate against us.
    It is no coincidence that we are witnessing this level of hatred toward Jews as President Barack Obama positions America against the Jewish state.
    Just days ago Obama traveled to Cairo, Egypt. It was his second trip in a short time to visit Muslim countries. He sent a clear message by not visiting Israel.
    But this was code.
    In Cairo, Obama said things that pose a grave danger to Jews in Israel, in America and everywhere.
    And if his views are not vigorously opposed they will help create a danger as great as that posed by the Nazis to the Jewish people.

    read [ Jewish Pirates of the Caribbean] by Edward Kritzler

    by Jewish Pirates of the Caribbean on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 12:49:04 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  But of course (5+ / 0-)

      The Rabbi doesn't understand the love of all mankind. That doesn't fit into his agenda,no fairness, no equity. Sounds like W, your either with us or against us.

      All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Thomas Jefferson

      by amazinggrace on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 12:53:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  he is just an example (9+ / 0-)

      of what a certain strain of Zionist thought took from the holocaust...You can not ever give any credence to the oppositions view point, sensible or otherwise...If you ever give an inch you lose your existence in their eyes...

      Conservative foreign policy seems to follow this ideology as well...we are always right even when we are wrong...if we ever admit we were wrong we fact we are so strong that the only way we lose is to admit we are wrong in their eyes...

      •  Yet another "strain" (4+ / 0-)
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        hester, zemblan, aggregatescience, Lolo08

        of thought that came from the holocaust was the most gentle touch of faith, self-sacrifice and community service.

        I suppose that's "zionism" too, if you think everything that any segment of Jews think, is zionism.

        In fact, for most Jews, Zionism is just the belief that Israel has a right to exist.

        Given that my entire family is Jewish, and I'd say most of them believe Israel has a right to exist, and to a person they are kind and thoughtful and intelligent and are open to all points of view about all sorts of things, I guess I'd have to say your comment is sort of . . . what's the word . . . ahh.  Offensive.  Yeah, that's the word.

        And it gets recommends.

        Let's not let this thread devolve into sneaky little ways to bash Israel.  Really.  C'mon.  Let's not.

        "Balance" does not mean giving the same weight to a lie as you do to the truth.

        by delphine on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 02:31:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As another Jew, (1+ / 0-)
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          I don't see it as a sneaky way to bash Israel.  Debatablepolitics is talking about a "certain strain of Zionism," not about Zionism, and he or she is talking very specifically about "conservative foreign policy."

        •  no I view Zionists pretty narrowly (0+ / 0-)

          as being those that believe in an Israeli state encompassing the whole territory as laid out in the Torah...

          In modern terms, both recognized Israeli lands and what are now known as the occupied territory. What has this group so infuriated at Obama is his use of the term Palestine because it implies breaking up that vision of the biblical state.

          •  But this is not about how YOU view zionists... (3+ / 0-)
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            delphine, zemblan, hikerbiker

            Shouldn't people who self identify as Zionists, or for that matter anything else, be able to define themselves?

            Plus, there is also the minor issue of a dictionary definition...which is not consistent with yours

            Would you like me to redefine "American" or "American Patriot" as only those who support Bush views on America? This is after all what you just did to a fairly large number of people who self-identify as Zionist but support a two state solution (e.g. the Meretz party supporters in Israel -

            •  how is my definition much different than the wiki (1+ / 0-)
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              you linked to

              my definition

              as being those that believe in an Israeli state encompassing the whole territory as laid out in the Torah...

              The wiki definition:

              Zionism is the international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine. The area was the Jewish Biblical homeland, called the Land of Israel (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el). Since the creation of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.[1]

              I do not see the real difference here

              plus I was pretty specific that I was talking about a specific segment of people within the zionist movement, those that believe conceding an inch to their oppostion will lead to the elimination of the Israeli state. That certainly does not encompass the view of even a majority of the zionists (which is not exclusive to the jewish community, I would consider myself a zionist insofar as I believe firmly in a jewish state, although I am also firmly in the two state solution camp), the jews living in Israel or the entire jewish diaspora...

              What research I have seen in fact makes it pretty clear that most people, even amongst these groups, understand the need and the correctness of some sort of two state solution, the hang up is more how to get there rather than whether it is what needs to happen for them...The group I am referring to is that narrow group that accepts nothing but a single state solution dominated by Jews...

              As far as letting people define themselves in the terms you seem to be propounding then we could only consider Charles Manson as a freedom fighter attempting through violence to lead us to a more enlightened state or some such nonsense as that is what he would have us believe, that is how he would define himself...

            •  oh isee where your comment is coming from now (1+ / 0-)
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              it is when I sadi this:

              What has this group so infuriated at Obama is his use of the term Palestine because it implies breaking up that vision of the biblical state.

              this was in reference to those that took the lesson of the holocaust to be never give an inch, not to zionists in general, just that specific group that include the rabbi and those that share this view...

              sorry about that confusion, i keep forgetting that typing on these boards does not always flow the same as a normal conversation does...

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