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View Diary: And so it begins....Church lays down the law. (185 comments)

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  •  Bible references (none)
    There are verses suggesting in a general way that God values the lives of the unborn.

    But there are also verses suggesting that different penalties should be exacted from someone who injures a pregnant woman and causes her to miscarry (in other words, inducing an abortion) than from someone who commits murder.

    In other words, abortion is NOT murder according to the Old Testament.  

    •  here it is (none)
      What you are looker for is (none / 0)

      Ex 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman WITH CHILD, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

      They definately separate the idea of an unborn from the born. They do leave it up to the Judges, but do not treat is as a murder. Some will argue the "mischief" clause and indicating this refers to premature birth, but I cannot find that. The term is translated as evil, harm, or hurt. But is this harm to the mother or child I do not know.

      I posted this down thread but it can go here too.

      We observe, you decide. Kerry/Edwards 04 (just a little late)

      by Tomtech on Wed Nov 17, 2004 at 09:33:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not to make to much of a translation (none)
        "with child" seems to imply personhood, "her fruit" does not.  I'd be curious as to what the original Hebrew was, I think that might sort things out better.  (It's also worth noting that medical terminology was as yet undeveloped, so specificity may be low.)

        The punishment, however, is quite different than murder.  It seems focus on the hurt of the woman, causing the end of the pregnancy.  This seems quite different from what happens in an abortion, where the woman is requesting the pregnancy be ended, sometimes because of medical need.

      •  The greek word (none)
        for fetus, baby, and infant were the same, according to some stuff I dug up off dkosopedia yesterday.  The article also goes into the old testament and new testament views on the subject.  Very informative.
        •  Correct me if I'm wrong, but (none)
          Exodus wasn't written in Greek, was it?  Surely the manuscripts are in Hebrew.

          Join the American Constitution Society for Law and Policy: www.acslaw.org

          by yella dawg dem on Wed Nov 17, 2004 at 11:58:44 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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