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View Diary: Are Jews white? (343 comments)

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  •  Are Catholics white? (2+ / 0-)
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    doc2, Mariken

    It depends on where they are from. This is a sort of silly diary. If a Jew is from Iran, he is NOT white and nother are the Muslim Iranians.  If a Jew is from France, and has European heritage, he's white.

    "Zionism is a single long action of lifesaving, of snatching great masses of people out of the path of sure extinction." Best-selling author, Herman Wouk

    by RussellNewYork on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 07:12:21 AM PDT

    •  Actually... (3+ / 0-)
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      TiaRachel, mamamedusa, CMYK

      Persians I've known (Jewish and otherwise) don't like the limitations of options presented to them.  It's like Brazilians who don't like being categorized as "Hispanic".

      •  The aboriginal people of the Middle East, the (1+ / 0-)
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        the Mediterranean Coast and North Africa, which includes the Ashkenazim, Sephardim and ethnic Persians and Arabs, among others, are technically caucasian.  Period...

        No politician ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the American public. PT Barnum, paraphrased...

        by jarhead5536 on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 07:33:50 AM PDT

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        •  the Berbers... (1+ / 0-)
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          don't forget the Berbers.

          for the countless confused, accused, misused, strung-out ones and worse

          by gooners on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 07:36:00 AM PDT

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          •  The tamazight ;or berbers (0+ / 0-)

            Where in part jewish even before christianity took hold, and later islam..this is far before Tarik who also was a berber,(not an arab) took his boats and crossed the mediterranean to spain..

            When the Jews began to disperse throughout the Roman empire after the dissolution of the Jewish state in 70, many settled in Mauretania including part of modern-day Morocco. These settlers engaged in agriculture, cattle-raising, and trades. They were divided into bodies akin to tribes, governed by their respective heads, and had to pay the Romans a capitation-tax of 2 shekels.

            Under the dominion of the Romans and after 429 of the Vandals the Mauretanian Jews increased and prospered to such a degree that Church councils of Africa found it necessary to take a stand against them. The Justinian edict of persecution for North Africa, issued after the Vandal rule had been overthrown and Mauretania had come under the dominion of the Byzantines (534), was directed against the Jews as well as the Arians, the Donatists, and other dissenters [3].

            In the 7th century the Jewish population of Mauretania received as a further accession from Iberian peninsula those who wished to escape west-Gothic legislation. At the end of the same century, at the time of the great Arab conquests in northwestern Africa, there were in Mauretania, according to the Arab historians, many powerful Berber tribes which professed Karaite Judaism. It would be very difficult to decide whether these Berber Jewish tribes were originally of Israelite descent and had become assimilated with the Berbers in language, habits, mode of life—in short, in everything except religion - or whether they were indigenous Berbers who in the course of centuries had become Jewish through conversion by Jewish settlers. This question is complicated by the likelihood of intermarriage. However this may have been, they at any rate shared much with their non-Jewish brethren in the Berber territory, and, like them, fought against the Arab conquerors.

            [edit] Arab Conquest and the Idrisids (703-1146)
            It was a supposedly Berber Jewish[4] woman Dahiyah, or Damia, better known as Kahina, who aroused her people in the Aures, the eastern spurs of the Atlas Mountains, to a last although fruitless resistance to the Arab general Hasan ibn an-Nu'man. As in the Hellenic lands of Christendom, so also in Mauretania, Judaism involuntarily prepared the way for Islam; and the conversion of the Berbers to Islam took place so much the more easily. Many Jewish tribes of the Berbers also accepted Islam while others were persuaded by the fact that the other side had been successful.

            However, the theory of massive judaization of the Berber population is called into question by the recent study on the mtDNA (transmitted from mother to children). In the study carried out by Doron et al. [5] indicate that Jews from north Africa lack typically North African Hg M1 and U6 mtDNAs. Hence, the lack of U6 and M1 chromosomes among the North African renders the possibility of significant admixture between the local Arab and Berber populations with Jews unlikely.


        •  The meaning of Caucasian has evolved (2+ / 0-)
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          TiaRachel, mamamedusa

          and a lot of people from the Mediterranean areas have considerable African ancestry.

        •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

          Most people would be under the category of Caucasian or Asian. A person would only be considered 'black' if they are from Africa only. No other place. For African Americans and West Indian blacks it becomes more complicated.

          To err is human. To forgive, divine.

          by Highwind on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 07:43:05 AM PDT

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          •  And "Black" has different meanings abroad. (0+ / 0-)

            My impression from watching TV and movies (and reading research) from the UK, Australia, and the Pacific Islands is that "Black" can mean whichever non-White indigenous population predominates locally, or whichever non-White immigrant population predominates locally, or all/both.

    •  Jews and Catholics are not parallel cases (4+ / 0-)
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      TiaRachel, ubertar, mamamedusa, CMYK

      Because Catholics are not an ethnic group, as Jews are.

      •  As Jews sometimes are... (1+ / 0-)
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        Rub raw the sores of discontent - Saul Alinsky

        by JayGR on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 10:52:49 AM PDT

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        •  I've seen it compared to a family (0+ / 0-)

          and the converts are like adopted children. It's not an exact analogy (because converts, unlike adoptees, choose their family), but it does help explain how Jews can think of themselves as one cohesive group, converts and secularists together.

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