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View Diary: The Fierce Urgency of "Meh" (47 comments)

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  •  money quote: (7+ / 0-)

    nd we want them to have enough trust to be effective.

    We're not trusting Obama enough. Never mind all of the inaction and even retro-action. We're supposed to have blind trust and yes, wait till its more convenient.

    While many minority groups are the target for discrimination, few face this hostility without the support and acceptance of their family as do many glbt youth.

    by azrefugee on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 12:57:40 AM PDT

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    •  First off, we have little choice. (0+ / 0-)

      Cause if Obama isn't on board, it ain't gonna happen no matter how much we yell.  We might force action, but if he really doesn't care if he wins, a noble failure will do him just as much good.

      So the strongest possible move is to treat him as if he is on board, cause if he is...he deserves it.  And if he isn't, he won't be able to use our lack of support as an excuse.

      But cut the shit with the "convenient" talk.  Nobody is talking bout convenience.  Nor is anyone talking about blind trust.  I'm making an entirely pragmatic argument that we ought to do everything possible to empower Obama.  It is by far the best possible move on the board.

      "What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them" Pres. Obama 1/20/09

      by snout on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 01:08:13 AM PDT

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      •  "Pragmatism" (8+ / 0-)

        A pragmatist (as opposed to an apologist) would approach something like DADT with a few things in mind:

        1. Obama can halt discharges via statute.
        1. Congress is unlikely to interfere with the military without direction from the president.
        1. Obama refuses to halt discharges.
        1. Legislation has yet to be introduced to repeal DADT in the senate.  
        1. The Obama administration insists on legislative repeal.
        1. The president's secretary of defense says repeal isn't on the agenda.  
        1.  Polling reveals support for repeal among the vast majority of the electorate.

        With these basic facts in mind, a pragmatist might say,  "Obama is not on board on this, so I have to figure out how to make him get on board."  But sadly, there's an obstacle there, because Congress, via Reid, shows every indication of passing it back to Obama.  All while the discharges continue.  

        A pragmatist needs an outside solution in that situation. So what do you, the pragmatist, propose?

        What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

        by Alec82 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 01:15:44 AM PDT

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        •  The pragamatic thing to do... (0+ / 0-)

          ...is to allow Obama to tackle DADT legislatively and to allow him to set the timing.

          Making him "get on board" a plan he does not believe in will surely not yield the desired results.

          "What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them" Pres. Obama 1/20/09

          by snout on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 01:24:54 AM PDT

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      •  Maybe YOU (9+ / 0-)

        have little choice. I have lots of choices. And I choose to stop allowing other people to tell me when its right and when its not. I choose to close my wallet to the DNC. I choose to stop supporting candidates that don't support my equality. I choose to focus my money and energy on organizations that DO.

        Stop telling me what my choices are. I choose to ignore it.

        While many minority groups are the target for discrimination, few face this hostility without the support and acceptance of their family as do many glbt youth.

        by azrefugee on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 01:24:38 AM PDT

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        •  If it makes you feel good (0+ / 0-)

          It won't effect the result though.

          "What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them" Pres. Obama 1/20/09

          by snout on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 01:26:13 AM PDT

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          •  What, you have a crystal ball? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gmb, 3goldens, chrome327

            have a good night.

            While many minority groups are the target for discrimination, few face this hostility without the support and acceptance of their family as do many glbt youth.

            by azrefugee on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 01:27:23 AM PDT

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            •  Well it is obvious (0+ / 0-)

              You elected the man to do a job.  Let him do it.  Help him do it.

              If you try to punish him into doing things your way, the chances of success become miniscule.

              Did anyone ever get a good effort out of you by taking that approach?  I strongly doubt it.

              "What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them" Pres. Obama 1/20/09

              by snout on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 01:33:26 AM PDT

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      •  Oh, I see. (8+ / 0-)

        You're asking us to have faith. You want faith from our community after a series of slights and outright insults from the Obama Administration.

        Many of us have spent years listening to the promises and lip service of politicians and administrations. We're done with faith. It's time for action. Sorry, but I'm not going to wait any longer to see if he's on board... I'm going to do what I can to MAKE him get on board. I don't know of any great achievement that was ever realized through silence or inaction. Sometimes you just need to light a fire under someone's ass.

        I keep moving to be stable. Free to wander, free to roam. - Peter Gabriel

        by wandering i on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 01:28:36 AM PDT

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