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View Diary: Belief (167 comments)

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  •  This is the one place (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Big Tex, 0wn, VelvetElvis

    where people seem to prefer wishful thinking/magic  over scientific treatment.

    •  I don't prefer it at all. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Old Gardener, jodygirl, blue aardvark

      But I recognize the placebo effect, which has a scientific and human value.

      •  but it's this kind of wishfull thinking (0+ / 0-)

        that makes most kinds of self improvement schemes immune to actual data.  doesn't matter if it's 12 step programs, diet pill, alternative medicine, dating gurus, whatever.  one anecdote from a friend or a late night infomercial is enough. and no amount of scientific data can sway a true believer.

        placebo effect or not, there are good public policy reasons to know if recovery programs are effective and at what rate one can expect relapse.

        I have been a selfish being all my life, in practice, though not in principle. - Jane Austen

        by st minutia on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 03:35:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  People are sometimes sentenced (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Old Gardener

          to 12 step programs. So there is already entanglement with the government, and good reason for taxpayers to want to know how well they work.

          Now ...

          Dons falme resistant long johns

          Consider that people are sent to these programs by courts.
          If scientific evidence suggests that Rational Recovery produces superior results, should courts force believers to go there?
          If RR has inferior results, should courts force atheists to not go there?
          Or should we let people act in accordance with their beliefs to avoid violating the Establishment Clause?

          Searching for intelligent life on the Internet. Please post a URL.

          by blue aardvark on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 03:41:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  those are good questions (0+ / 0-)

            i don't know the answers.  i guess, since we already know that relapse happens at an amazingly high rate for both kinds of programs, unless there is a clear benefit to one over the other, the choice should be up to the individual.  

            but i'm not so sure that the sticky question of forcing atheists into a religious group or vice versa is a good enough reason not to try to find out if one method or the other is empirically better at curing addiction.

            I have been a selfish being all my life, in practice, though not in principle. - Jane Austen

            by st minutia on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 03:47:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Further (0+ / 0-)

              The data would be misleading, because sending an atheist to God School, or a believer to RR, might produce different results than letting people choose their own.

              So unless there was a HUGE advantage one way or the other, letting people go where they will seems best to me.

              Searching for intelligent life on the Internet. Please post a URL.

              by blue aardvark on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 03:51:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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