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View Diary: Honduras' Coup Congress Cancels Five Basic Liberties (331 comments)

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  •  I hope I don't fall into that category (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HarlanNY

    I didn't support the coup and I don't think anyone deserves that kind of treatment. However, previously I said that he is not the most empathetic character.  If this is what the people really wanted, impeachment would have done just fine.

    "As Ghandi used to say, 'By any means necessary,'" - Fake Steve Jobs, RIP

    by nefrocatracho on Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 10:23:38 PM PDT

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    •  There's no process for impeachment (4+ / 2-)
      Recommended by:
      litho, beijingbetty, Edgewater, CallieDog71
      Hidden by:
      power2truth, Johnny Q

      That's part of the problem.

    •  I agree that he's got his own ... (16+ / 0-)

      ...problems. I'm wasn't thinking of you, you've been clear, and I'm not naming names, but there were a few folks who kept saying, things like "A coup is bad, but ..." sort of like the people who say "Torture is bad, but..."

      There are no buts about it.

      Some people would be better off not reading diaries they comment on, since they already have all the answers.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 11:08:26 PM PDT

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      •  In the event that this song is about me, (0+ / 0-)

        I may not have been 100% behind Zelaya.  In fact, I think it wouldn't have been a bad idea for Zelaya to be impeached or something along those lines.. those lines being the legal channels within Honduras.  He did, after all, defy the Supreme Court.

        However, I've been clear that you can't just raid someone's house at dawn and expel them from their own homeland.  It doesn't matter if it's a President or an average Joe(or an average Jose, if you will).

        Sure, I'm not a Chavez fan by any means.  Sure, I'm skeptical of some of the claims that have come out from Caracas.  Sure, I don't think all the blame lies squarely with the Honduran establishment.  But none of that really matters at this point.  We're all bearing witness to how the Honduran establishment plans to run things, and we've already seen how incompetently they have handled this situation.

        Where it goes from here is unknown.  Zelaya is limited to one term per the Honduran constitution(if it hasn't been torched by the establishment claiming to defend it).  He'll probably be arrested if he enters Honduras.  Chavez is barking at the establishment as usual, in ways that make Bush's cowboy-diplomacy appear measured and controlled.  It could go anywhere, including an armed-conflict.

        "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

        by Setrak on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 05:42:38 AM PDT

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        •  And you are still spewing right-wing lies (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          svboston

          Right after you unsuccessfully self-exculpatory preamble.

          Which makes you an accessory to this crime, morally at the very least.

          The well-known phenomena of pshychological projection and confirmation bias account for 198% of conservative so-called 'ideas'

          by power2truth on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 07:20:42 AM PDT

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        •  Thanks for reminding us of you, you may have (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SLKRR

          slipped through the cracks if it wasn't for this comment and the cacophony of right-wing slogans and slurs contained therein.

          The well-known phenomena of pshychological projection and confirmation bias account for 198% of conservative so-called 'ideas'

          by power2truth on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 07:26:27 AM PDT

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        •  The upper class are always the bad guys in LatAm (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mariachi mama, Johnny Q, minachica

          If you haven't learned this by now, you don't want to learn.

          I've recognized what pre-Communist China, Russia, Cuba and Vietnam have in common.

          In all those places, the ruling elite truly regarded their serfs as animals, not as fellow citizens.  A different color, a different religion.  The light-skinned rich dressed like Yankees, driving Mercedes, sending their kids to Andover, recoil from the poor they've reduced to rags and have less loyalty to them than to Wall Street.

          I've seen the same thing in the Philippines.  One of Hunter Thompson's articles from the early '60s was about the same bigotry being expressed when he visited Latin America.  He and I observed that Yankees who hang out with the rich soon take on the same bigotry (our corporate media correspondents?).

          Whenever you have a state whose owners view themselves as having more in common with the owners of America than their own masses, you will have a state that will wage war on the masses.  Such a state never makes economic progress because it views the poor as the enemy, to be silenced and kept starving and uneducated.  No matter how many people Mao murdered, he was the first real ruler of China to change that view, and that cleared the way for capitalism's current success there.  Japan and South Korea have been ruled by tyrants, but they always viewed their poor as part of the team.  They were patriots first, capitalists a distant second.  

          If you say that this is a constitutional problem, not a Class War problem, then you might as well join the GOP.  Because that is the exact bigotry and contempt that you hear from Limbaugh and every GOP leader and most of the remaining followers towards the rest of America, setting up house in the soul of our increasingly unequal and rigid class system, clawing out of the grave of the Confederacy.  Honduras is our GOP future if we let it.

    •  You simply argued endlessly for the least (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Anak

      probable and least plausible explanation in the face of something you know nothing about or maybe dangerously little, while right-wing talking points were flaying around. If you are in good faith, I hope you learned something by the fact that 2 days ago, you were used.

      The well-known phenomena of pshychological projection and confirmation bias account for 198% of conservative so-called 'ideas'

      by power2truth on Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 11:17:43 PM PDT

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      •  Used how? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        betson08

        By passing along what many Hondurans, by my account, were thinking? I don't think so. And passing it along doesn't legitimize it or infer support for it. It simply was a perspective from what is a fairly typical family down there.  I think it's important to know what people are thinking if you want to know how to approach a problem. So let's censor that perspective but say nothing about the inferences from many here that somehow this coup was extremely unpopular in Honduras even though there is no evidence to that effect, because it supports our agenda, while the former does not.

        "As Ghandi used to say, 'By any means necessary,'" - Fake Steve Jobs, RIP

        by nefrocatracho on Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 11:34:35 PM PDT

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        •  I am rapidly losing any residual belief in your (0+ / 0-)

          good faith with your blah blah blah.

          The well-known phenomena of pshychological projection and confirmation bias account for 198% of conservative so-called 'ideas'

          by power2truth on Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 11:36:29 PM PDT

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          •  Why bother leaving such a comment (0+ / 0-)

            when you could just say nothing. Because in the end that's what you did.

            "As Ghandi used to say, 'By any means necessary,'" - Fake Steve Jobs, RIP

            by nefrocatracho on Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 11:44:07 PM PDT

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            •  Like you. But it took you 8 lines, and me 2. eom (0+ / 0-)

              The well-known phenomena of pshychological projection and confirmation bias account for 198% of conservative so-called 'ideas'

              by power2truth on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:03:42 AM PDT

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              •  No, actually your 'good faith' talk (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Meteor Blades

                has consumed quite a bit more than 2 lines on this thread, and serves no real purpose. I am not even sure that we disagree on this issue. But you seem more interested in putting others down than having a constructive argument.

                On my most conservative days I'm a Democrat

                by nefrocatracho on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:36:01 AM PDT

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                •  For better or worse (0+ / 0-)

                  I don't think the purpose of this discussion forum is to have constructive arguments.  It's to advance the causes that have majority consensus in the community.  Information isn't going to be very welcome when it supports a viewpoint that most people oppose.

          •  I don't see how this particular poster ... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            litho, betson08

            ...deserves your scorn. Others, yes, but s/he seems reasonable - that doesn't necessarily indicate agreement - to me.

            Some people would be better off not reading diaries they comment on, since they already have all the answers.

            by Meteor Blades on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 02:58:37 AM PDT

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            •  Good point, but the least one can say when (0+ / 0-)

              they see that they have been a conduit for pro-coup propaganda points (probably unwillingly, I grant, but without a doubt), a pretty good thing to say would be "we were duped, and we won't let it happen again."

              Using older TPs to justify one's embrace of the newer ones is to perpetuate the problem.

              The well-known phenomena of pshychological projection and confirmation bias account for 198% of conservative so-called 'ideas'

              by power2truth on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 07:25:06 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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