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View Diary: Honduras' Coup Congress Cancels Five Basic Liberties (331 comments)

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  •  I agree that he's got his own ... (16+ / 0-)

    ...problems. I'm wasn't thinking of you, you've been clear, and I'm not naming names, but there were a few folks who kept saying, things like "A coup is bad, but ..." sort of like the people who say "Torture is bad, but..."

    There are no buts about it.

    Some people would be better off not reading diaries they comment on, since they already have all the answers.

    by Meteor Blades on Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 11:08:26 PM PDT

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    •  In the event that this song is about me, (0+ / 0-)

      I may not have been 100% behind Zelaya.  In fact, I think it wouldn't have been a bad idea for Zelaya to be impeached or something along those lines.. those lines being the legal channels within Honduras.  He did, after all, defy the Supreme Court.

      However, I've been clear that you can't just raid someone's house at dawn and expel them from their own homeland.  It doesn't matter if it's a President or an average Joe(or an average Jose, if you will).

      Sure, I'm not a Chavez fan by any means.  Sure, I'm skeptical of some of the claims that have come out from Caracas.  Sure, I don't think all the blame lies squarely with the Honduran establishment.  But none of that really matters at this point.  We're all bearing witness to how the Honduran establishment plans to run things, and we've already seen how incompetently they have handled this situation.

      Where it goes from here is unknown.  Zelaya is limited to one term per the Honduran constitution(if it hasn't been torched by the establishment claiming to defend it).  He'll probably be arrested if he enters Honduras.  Chavez is barking at the establishment as usual, in ways that make Bush's cowboy-diplomacy appear measured and controlled.  It could go anywhere, including an armed-conflict.

      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

      by Setrak on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 05:42:38 AM PDT

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      •  And you are still spewing right-wing lies (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Right after you unsuccessfully self-exculpatory preamble.

        Which makes you an accessory to this crime, morally at the very least.

        The well-known phenomena of pshychological projection and confirmation bias account for 198% of conservative so-called 'ideas'

        by power2truth on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 07:20:42 AM PDT

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      •  Thanks for reminding us of you, you may have (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        slipped through the cracks if it wasn't for this comment and the cacophony of right-wing slogans and slurs contained therein.

        The well-known phenomena of pshychological projection and confirmation bias account for 198% of conservative so-called 'ideas'

        by power2truth on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 07:26:27 AM PDT

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      •  The upper class are always the bad guys in LatAm (3+ / 0-)
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        mariachi mama, Johnny Q, minachica

        If you haven't learned this by now, you don't want to learn.

        I've recognized what pre-Communist China, Russia, Cuba and Vietnam have in common.

        In all those places, the ruling elite truly regarded their serfs as animals, not as fellow citizens.  A different color, a different religion.  The light-skinned rich dressed like Yankees, driving Mercedes, sending their kids to Andover, recoil from the poor they've reduced to rags and have less loyalty to them than to Wall Street.

        I've seen the same thing in the Philippines.  One of Hunter Thompson's articles from the early '60s was about the same bigotry being expressed when he visited Latin America.  He and I observed that Yankees who hang out with the rich soon take on the same bigotry (our corporate media correspondents?).

        Whenever you have a state whose owners view themselves as having more in common with the owners of America than their own masses, you will have a state that will wage war on the masses.  Such a state never makes economic progress because it views the poor as the enemy, to be silenced and kept starving and uneducated.  No matter how many people Mao murdered, he was the first real ruler of China to change that view, and that cleared the way for capitalism's current success there.  Japan and South Korea have been ruled by tyrants, but they always viewed their poor as part of the team.  They were patriots first, capitalists a distant second.  

        If you say that this is a constitutional problem, not a Class War problem, then you might as well join the GOP.  Because that is the exact bigotry and contempt that you hear from Limbaugh and every GOP leader and most of the remaining followers towards the rest of America, setting up house in the soul of our increasingly unequal and rigid class system, clawing out of the grave of the Confederacy.  Honduras is our GOP future if we let it.

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