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View Diary: Honduras' Coup Congress Cancels Five Basic Liberties (331 comments)

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  •  By "the right" bank accounts (0+ / 0-)

    you are implying that the US and EU would pick sides. That's the worst thing they could do. Just stay neutral and don't get involved.

    •  The US and EU (4+ / 0-)
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      betson08, jim d, kafkananda, thethinveil

      Are both on the record as stating that the elected President be restored to power. That will not change.

      The easiest way for the US and EU (and UN for that matter) to get what it wants is to cut the Generals access to their foreign bank accounts - unless they do what has been demanded.

      The harder way would involve the ready brigade of the 82nd Airborne, some special forces, a little air power and naval power and result in some important generals having their bank accounts be the least they need to worry about.

      Make no mistake, the situation will be reverted and the elected President will finish out his term. Honduras will have zero diplomatic contacts, zero trading partners, and zero money coming in via the world bank or IMF otherwise. It is an unsustainable situation for the current temporary government. Whether anyone likes it or not they won't get a say in the matter.

      If I were in a position of authority in Honduras right now I would carefully heed the 72 hour ultimatum.

      •  Why do you assume (0+ / 0-)

        that it would be a good thing for the US, the EU, and the UN to get what they want? Isn't it possible that these governments aren't necessarily infalliable. Couldn't it be true that the desires of these governments isn't in the best interests of humanity or the Hondouran people? Maybe the best thing for humanity is for these governments to not get what they want.

        Oh wait, I forgot, the US government is a saint that brings peace and democracy and shiny rainbows to the rest of the world at the barrel of a gun.

        Please leave Hondouras alone.

        •  I make no such assumption (2+ / 0-)
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          thethinveil, svboston

          About whether it is good or not. The simple fact of the matter is that none of the foreign players in this situation are going to lose face once they have gone out that far.

          As a matter of fact, on this kind of issue I have stated many times that the US is not viewed as the "good guy" in its involvement in Central and South America over the last 200 years.

          The problem in this case is magnified by the positions of countries like Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Mexico, etc. It isn't even about what the US wants either as I believe that South America, in particular, have largely got out from under the boot of the US.

          Witness the result of the uprisings in Bolivia, the aftermath of the Colombian (with US help) raid into Ecuador, and even the reversal of the Chavez coup 7 years ago.

          In the case of Honduras today the people will ultimately suffer without trade - especially petroleum products, foreign money in the the form of loans, grants, etc., and being completely isolated diplomatically. There are easy choices and hard choices in that situation and the government needs to act in the interests of their people. With the entire world having condemned Honduras as a pariah nation the easiest choice is to put things back the way they are since the country cannot sustain itself without outside assistance.

          It doesn't matter whether the decision made by various world bodies is good or not. But the decision has been made. Since no country recognizes the current temporary government in Honduras they don't get a say in the matter. That is why I said it doesn't matter whether anyone likes it or not.

          It would be one thing to debate on what countries or organizations (UN, OAS, etc) should do in resolving the situation but that isn't the case here. It has been settled as to what actions are going to be taken and they have been announced publicly already. Good, bad, right, wrong - it doesn't matter.

          It is not as if when that 72 hour deadline expires that the OAS will not suspend Honduras' OAS status. Or that nations won't make good on any announced sanctions. It isn't as if all of the nations lined up against the current government in Honduras are bluffing. They aren't bluffing.

          All the OAS, and US, etc. want is the military coup (the OAS and US and others description, not mine) to be undone and the president restored. The new president will be elected in a few months and Zelaya will be out of office in January. There are no demands to remove the term limit or modify the constitution of Honduras or anything drastic.

          However, if the temporary government decides to do this the hard way then I would think all of that could change.

          Mind you, I am not agreeing nor disagreeing with what the international community has decided. But it has decided and now there are real consequences if Honduras goes against it.

          I am not saying it is a good thing, let alone assuming it. I have not taken any position on what should or shouldn't be done in this matter at all. I have made no judgment about what is or isn't a good or right decision in this matter. I am only commenting based on what has been done and what has been announced that will be done.

          My original comment on this diary was merely my suggestion as to the simplest way to end the situation in Honduras with the least amount of impact on the people or suffering of the people and especially the surest way to avoid any unnecessary bloodshed.

        •  Cultural relativism run amok (2+ / 0-)
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          MindRayge, mariachi mama

          Honduras is enmeshed in the international system by virtue of its membership in the UN, the Central American Parliament, international trade etc.

          The US has been up to its ears in interfering with the Honduran government for eons.

          Since 1982, this is a good encapsulation of history, from the Progressive (thanks Al).

          After the passage of the constitution in 1982, the military cemented its dominion over Honduran political affairs. The generals kept a tight rein on the population through a military death squad unit known as “Battalion 316,” which was trained by the CIA and killed hundreds of Hondurans. (Former members of this battalion also took part in the recent coup.)

          In the early 1980s, CIA station chiefs and the U.S. Embassy led by then-Ambassador John Negroponte called the shots in Honduras. (Negroponte went on to hold various senior posts in the George W. Bush administration, including director of national intelligence.) The country became the staging ground for the Reagan administration’s covert wars against rebels in El Salvador and the socialist Sandinista government in Nicaragua.

          Deep U.S. involvement endures to this day. Honduras maintains a large U.S. military base that is one of the Pentagon’s last remaining footholds in Latin America, while the Honduran military still receives millions in U.S. taxpayer dollars. This same military has brutally repressed massive street demonstrations clamoring for the return of the country’s democratically elected leader.

          The funding bill for this assistance plainly states that U.S. military aid will be cut for “any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup or decree.”

          As an anthropolgist, I can tell you that you can go too far with relativism. In this case you end up being apathetic or approving of a brutal military coup that is NOT good for Honduras by any stretch of the imagination,.

          A coup is NEVER a good thing, lets not be naive.

      •  World Bank and other (1+ / 0-)
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        lending agencies have frozen all lending. Neighboring countries are doing a 48 hour freeze on trade.

        A start.....

    •  We pick sides when it comes to fascism. (3+ / 0-)
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      Johnny Q, thethinveil, svboston

      Just like we pick sides when it comes to polio or HIV.

      The Bill of Rights is universal.

      by Paul Goodman on Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 02:38:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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