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View Diary: The cost of no public option (185 comments)

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  •  This is a great way to look at the problem (7+ / 0-)

    and it needs to be publicized a lot more.

    As near as I can tell, NO ONE has come up with a more efficient way of delivering health care than a government-based single payer system.  That the discussion is about options to this is testament to the efficacy of those in opposition to single payer;
    it doesn't change the numbers.

    Again, I don't think most Americans are that concerned about paying more for health care than any other country.  They are concerned about paying the most, but not getting outcomes as good as many.

    Especially France, dammit!

    •  France is not a single payer system. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmo

      All my IP addresses have been banned from Redstate.com.

      by charliehall on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 07:52:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, I know. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean

        Yet, they are still able to kick our asses in the outcomes department at about two thirds of what we spend.

        Imagine what they could do if they applied themselves!

        •  for an example (0+ / 0-)

          look at electricity.

          The French government owned electric utility generates most of its electricity from nuclear plants -- at half or less the retail cost of electricity in the US.

          All my IP addresses have been banned from Redstate.com.

          by charliehall on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 08:40:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  See, I'm not so sure about 'costs' these days, (2+ / 0-)

            when it comes to electricity.  I know for years where I live the utilities used figures for cost of production that conveniently left out the cost of building the coal-fired plants they used.  Their goal, of course, was to avoid paying owners of wind generators a higher rate for their output.

            Now that the utilities OWN most of the wind generators, they're not so fussy with the accounting.

            I can easily see the proponents of nuclear power leaving out a few items, such as the cost of safely dealing with spent fuel, something they haven't yet accomplished.

            This, of course, has little to do with their health care outcomes or the amount they spend as a per centage of GDP to obtain those outcomes.

    •  Several countries in Europe (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmo

      have health care systems that utilize both public and private health insurance, Germany and Switzerland for instance.  One big difference in Switzerland is that the government requires any health insurance company certified to receive public funds must be non-profit.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 08:20:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We used to have nonprofit health insurers (0+ / 0-)

        all the Blue Cross Blue Shield plans were nonprofit.

        All the Kaiser plans still are.

        What killed most of them was that they could only raise capital in debt markets, not equity markets.

        All my IP addresses have been banned from Redstate.com.

        by charliehall on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 08:56:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What 'killed' them is upper management (4+ / 0-)

          couldn't justify multi-million dollar compensation packages for upper management to their policy holders.

          So, upper management managed to buy enough influence in Congress to be allowed to forcibly convert to for profit companies whether their policy holders approved or not.  Seeing as how their policy holders were pretty much also their shareholders, it was quite the coup.

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