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View Diary: Timing Not Timidity Drives Obama on Gay Rights (125 comments)

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  •  Gee, let's see (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    homogenius, sfbob, Alec82

    Ten or a dozen former generals (including several past chairmen of the JCS)--all in favor of repeal. Seventy-five percent of the American people: In favor of repeal. Sam Fucking Nunn, the fuckwad who foisted it on us in the first place: in favor of repeal. Well over a hundred and fifty cosponsors in the House for Tauscher's repeal bill. A filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.

    Exactly what in hell is the man waiting for? An engraved invitation?

    •  No, a bill that's on the verge of passing. (0+ / 0-)

      But if you want a repeat of the last 8 years, that's fine with me.  Let's forget elections, and just select ourselves a progressive king.  Then we won't have to be annoyed by little details like a representative democracy, or the rule of law.  Or taking a deep breath and thinking about what we're supporting.

      Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war. - A. Einstein

      by I love OCD on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 03:20:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  See, I give a shit about policy (5+ / 0-)

        You, on the other hand, put all of your chips on the process square.

        Ok, so I read the polls.

        by andgarden on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 03:23:25 PM PDT

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      •  Your ignorance is showing (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Larry Bailey, homogenius, sfbob, Alec82

        Obama doesn't need a bill to halt the discharges. Congress gave the president the statutory authority to stop any discharges in the interest of national security three decades ago. All of the conditions required for the exercise of that statutory authority have been met--except the part about having a commander-in-chief with the intestinal fortitude to do it. Meanwhile, as the president sits on his arse waiting for Congress to get off its collective arse and send him that bill, we're discharging an average of two servicemembers a day--people we desperately need and whom we can ill afford to lose--or replace. Just finding, recruiting, and training replacements for the 200+ servicemembers discharged under DADT since Obama was sworn in will cost American taxpayers, roughly estimated, in excess of $10 million.

        •  Okay, well since you can't (0+ / 0-)

          seem to grasp the essential point I'm making here, please feel free to talk amongst yourselves.  Good luck winning friends and influencing people, BTW.  From now on I'm busy with health care reform and women's rights.  I hope you have enough people to manage this without support from straight people, because you just lost me.

          Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war. - A. Einstein

          by I love OCD on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 04:29:59 PM PDT

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          •  Fair weather allies.... (4+ / 0-)

            ...are no allies at all.  I love this threat, though.  It's stunning in its arrogance and it's so typical of the Democratic approach: You have no right to expect your "rights" because they're simply privileges we bestow on you.  

            Can you imagine if I had the same attitude about abortion?

            What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

            by Alec82 on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 04:35:03 PM PDT

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            •  Yeah well I've been an ally (0+ / 0-)

              since before you were born, most likely.  You have no idea how many letters I've written, or phone calls I've made, or how much money I've donated, or the Gay Pride parades I've marched in, back when you could get the shit kicked out of you for being there.  You've treated me like shit.  I've never been this pissed at anyone on this site, and I'm starting to understand why so many straights are bailing on you.  

              My issue isn't even on the radar, and I've put my energy into your battle.  No more.  Bye Bye.

              Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war. - A. Einstein

              by I love OCD on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 04:45:27 PM PDT

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                •  Thank you! (0+ / 0-)

                  It's been really fun playing with you guys.

                  Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war. - A. Einstein

                  by I love OCD on Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 05:21:53 AM PDT

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                  •  Welcome to our world (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Alec82

                    This is what we've been getting from the Democratic Party (and many folks here on the most progressive site on the intertoobz) for years. Is it any wonder we're fed up with it?

                    •  Fed up with *it* (0+ / 0-)

                      doesn't have to translate to rudeness or personal attacks, does it?  I actually thought you were one of the trolls here to stir shit, so I played with it.

                      How can there be any understanding when hostility gets in the middle?  And I feel sad that I'm so accustomed to and fed up with  the concern trolls that I now assume that they're everywhere.

                      Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war. - A. Einstein

                      by I love OCD on Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 05:00:41 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I've been a registered member of this site (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Alec82

                        for five and a half years. I've had TU status for longer than I can remember. I make thousands of comments here every year, and write at least a few diaries to boot. A little quick research should have given you all the proof you needed that I am not a concern troll here to stir up shit.

                        And, having been here for those five and a half years, let me assure you that this is only about the 6.022 × 1023rd time that I've had this argument and am (understandably) snippy whenever someone brings up the same old tired BS that's been debunked here a thousand times before.

                        •  You had the misfortune of (0+ / 0-)

                          being in a thread, and closely identified in tone, with someone who is a shit stirrer.  Yes, you can be snippy if you like, just don't expect people like me to be converted to your POV or patient with your frustration when you attack.  Maybe I have a different way of looking at life than you do, and maybe I'm not entirely a shithead for seeing things my way?  Could be.  And I could learn from you if you'd cut back a little on the nastiness.  

                          It's what I started out saying, I think.  If we can't talk to each other respectfully nothing will ever change.  Since I have personal experience with that kind of conversion experience - I've actually seen bigots change because they were exposed to something new in a non-threatening way - it would be stupid of me to ignore my own reality in favor of your claim that nothing ever changes people, and they're not worthy of the energy.

                          You keep trying it your way, I'll keep trying mine.  And in all honesty, I don't really care how long you've been here, that doesn't require that I respect you or give credence to your arguments.  You were rude and nasty.  I thought you were a shit stirrer.  Maybe that should tell you something about how effective you can be.

                          Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war. - A. Einstein

                          by I love OCD on Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 07:52:44 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Uh-huh (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Alec82

                            If you want to be effective around this place, it behooves you to know who the players are. Or are you usually in the habit of diving in to new situations and flailing around blindly without knowing who's who, what's what, or what's going on? (If so, good luck to you and please keep as far away from me as possible; I rather like my corner of the world.)

                            Respect is a two-way street, m'dear, and you've done nothing on this thread to demonstrate that you're in any way deserving of it. And I guarantee you that you're unlikely to garner any if you continue to mis-state and twist the arguments you're responding to so that they fit better with your own preconceived notions. (I'm specifically referring to your utter and complete mischaracterization of my point in the last sentence of your second paragraph, by the way.)

                            I find it interesting that it is, almost without exception, the people who are trying to hold up progress who continually get their knickers in a twist about "comity" or "politeness." It's particularly amusing in the context of modern American politics, which, despite all the cutesy rhetoric, has been at least this rude and nasty for roughly the last 233 years. If you want to play in the political kitchen, you had best be able to withstand the heat.

                          •  Actually I'm usually in the (0+ / 0-)

                            habit of leaving and letting people blast away at each other.  I'm mad now, however, and sick of the trolls, and sick of the bullshit.   So I'll overreact from time to time, and reply to the wrong person from time to time, and be pissed when what I say is twisted or slammed or deliberately misunderstood.  Like you, I'm sick of hearing the same old shit about the same old shit.  So we'll have to agree that we don't have much respect for each other and move on.

                            Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war. - A. Einstein

                            by I love OCD on Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 05:30:50 AM PDT

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              •  I've got your back, I.L.OCD (0+ / 0-)

                And I feel the exact same way. You one-issue people seem to think your issue is the only issue and the president needs to drop everything else important to the other 299,999,999 people in the country to cater to you. Well, you lost me when you blamed 7 percent of the California electorate for helping to keep in place one of their beloved prop votes because 80+ percent of that 7 percent voted for it. No blame for anyone else, just that 7 percent. Because you didn't do your due diligence. So you lost my sympathy a long time ago.

          •  Door, ass, etc. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            homogenius, andgarden, Alec82

            We don't need summer soldiers or sunshine patriots. We need actual supporters.

            And I'm sorry that it's uncomfortable for you to realize you're part of the problem and not the solution. But recognizing that you have a problem is the first step on the road to doing something to fix it. Good luck with that.

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