Skip to main content

View Diary: Really Barack! Logging in a rain forest? (123 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Could you provide a little more information? (18+ / 0-)

    I was born and raised in Alaska.  And the rainforest you're referring to has been logged almost as long as I can remember.  It's not being clear cut, obviously or it would be gone by now.

    But if you provided a TEENSY bit more information about what areas are being logged I may have a better understanding of what you're talking about.  Not all logging is irresponsible, clear cut logging.  And I think it's irresponsible to conflate the two.

    You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

    by DawnG on Thu Jul 16, 2009 at 09:23:30 AM PDT

    •  A billion dollars in timber roads to nowhere. (5+ / 0-)

      Taxpayers for common sense says:

      We have paid almost a billion dollars in subsidies by building roads to nowhere for timber harvesting.

      SUPPORT THE ANDREWS-CHABOT AMENDMENT TO CUT
      ROAD-BUILDING SUBSIDIES

      Since 1982, the Forest Service has lost nearly $1 billion subsidizing the timber industry in Alaska’s Tongass National Forest. That equates to an average annual loss of nearly $40 million. It is long past time for the Forest Service to come clean with the American public about how much it spends and put a stop to these wasteful subsidies.

         * The Forest Service continues to ignore the realities of the market place, spending millions of taxpayer dollars to sell timber no one wants—even at bargain basement prices. 45% of the timber sales the agency offered between 1998 and 2007 received no bids.
           
         * Of the 5,000 miles of Tongass forest roads, only 1,200 miles, or 24%, are open to passenger cars. Built with taxpayer money, the remaining 76% of roads are for timber access and extraction. Taxpayers are building roads they cannot use in order to shield timber companies from the true cost of doing business.
           
         * Job numbers have been inversely proportional to Forest Service spending. Between 1996 and 2007, Tongass timber-related jobs fell from 1,558 to under 200. Consequently, taxpayer subsidies per Tongass timber job have skyrocketed to nearly $300,000 per job.                                            

      The Bottom Line

      Taxpayers should not be forced to pay the price for the Forest Service’s mismanagement. Basic common sense dictates that ignoring rising losses year after year points to just one thing—increased future losses. It is time for the Forest Service to stop throwing good money after bad and face the realities of a changing market.

      "It's the planet, stupid."

      by FishOutofWater on Thu Jul 16, 2009 at 09:50:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  WTF? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        canyonrat, steve04, a night owl, soms

        The Forest Service continues to ignore the realities of the market place, spending millions of taxpayer dollars to sell timber no one wants—even at bargain basement prices. 45% of the timber sales the agency offered between 1998 and 2007 received no bids.

        Timber no one wants?  That's ridiculous.  At least provide more CONTEXT to define that claim.  This is one of those instances where the "why" is just as important as the "what".  If those timber sales are so small or so remote as to not even allow a logging company to break even, then yah it will be refused.  But that doesn't mean it's "Timber no one wants".

        Of the 5,000 miles of Tongass forest roads, only 1,200 miles, or 24%, are open to passenger cars. Built with taxpayer money, the remaining 76% of roads are for timber access and extraction. Taxpayers are building roads they cannot use in order to shield timber companies from the true cost of doing business.

        Well...Yah.  Duh!  Most of those roads are designed for heavy lumber machinery (cranes and trucks) and are probably not even PAVED.  You don't WANT passenger cars on most of those roads.  That's utterly ridiculous!

          * Job numbers have been inversely proportional to Forest Service spending. Between 1996 and 2007, Tongass timber-related jobs fell from 1,558 to under 200. Consequently, taxpayer subsidies per Tongass timber job have skyrocketed to nearly $300,000 per job.  

        This reminds me of that saying "lies, damned lies, and statistics"   There are fewer timber jobs because there's far fewer acres opened for logging (not even to get into bark beetles and the overall ammount of timber per acre), but the expenses incurred as a result of logging do not go down just because there are fewer people actually harvesting.  The ammoratized cost for roads is much less when more people use them, and the ineverse is very predictably true.

        You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

        by DawnG on Thu Jul 16, 2009 at 10:01:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site