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View Diary: ACTION ALERT! We have 24 hours to keep California "Open" (updated 2x) (273 comments)

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  •  How long? (3+ / 0-)

    I'm terribly sorry for Californians who'll suffer because of this mess, but it begs one simple question: How long before you all finally rewrite your constitution so that your state can finally be at least marginally better governed than Haiti? When does the ballot initiative stuff, in which everyone votes for tax cuts AND new programs, go away? When will you all be able to do the right thing and raise taxes based on a simple majority vote in the state legislature? Fix those problems, and you have hope. Ignore them and you're doomed.

    The Bush Family: 0 for 4 in Wisconsin

    by Korkenzieher on Wed Jul 22, 2009 at 01:30:11 PM PDT

    •  For every bad initiative you come up with (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib, codairem

      as reason why YOU, an out of stater, think we should do away with the process, there is a good initiative passed as to why I (a third generation native Californian) think the process should stay in effect.

      My Karma just ran over your Dogma

      by FoundingFatherDAR on Wed Jul 22, 2009 at 01:49:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've been a California voter (7+ / 0-)

        since 1969 and I have seen very few that I thought were accomplished improvement and many more that were really bad ideas. The process has done more harm than good.

      •  Case study (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tmo, coigue

        California is a case study as to why direct democracy doesn't work on a large scale. It's not about individual initiatives; I'm sure that many of them have merit. As a whole, however, the system is a failure. The initiative system has stalemated state government and rendered it unable to respond effectively in a crisis. As you point out, though, your state, not mine. Just don't ask for help from the other 49 states as long as your wounds are self-inflicted.

        The Bush Family: 0 for 4 in Wisconsin

        by Korkenzieher on Wed Jul 22, 2009 at 02:36:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Until those self-inflicted (0+ / 0-)

          wounds start causing other parts of the country to bleed. CA is the 8th largest economy in the world, and pretending that what goes on there doesn't affect the rest of the country is foolish.

          The state needs to be bailed out and the budget process put under federal control. I don't know if that is constitutionally possible, but I wouldn't think that the state of CA could confiscate local taxes.

          In every cry of every man, In every infant's cry of fear, In every voice, in every ban, The mind-forged manacles I hear

          by Areopagitica on Wed Jul 22, 2009 at 04:27:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The initiative process is broken (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tmo, fumie, coigue, canadaboy37

        Ok, so maybe I've only been in California 15 years, but the initiative process is amazingly stupid.  I realize that people are annoyed with the quality of their representatives, but here's a suggestion --- work toward electing smarter, more responsive people.  All the initiative process does is make money for marketing/direct mail firms.  If our elected representatives always have the excuse that their hands are tied by initiatives, then it makes it harder to hold their feet to the fire.  I realize that the initiative process is a sacred cow in California, but try to step back and look at the stupidity that continues to come out of it.  

      •  Take the money out of the process (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wu ming

        Make it illegal to pay signature gatherers per signature and illegal to bus them in from out of state.

        Only the rich can get things on the ballot now.

        •  What's wrong with paid signature gatherers? (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not sure what's so wrong with paid signature gatherers. Why shouldn't they be paid for their work? Are you talking about signature gatherers who gather signatures under false pretenses, or are you implying that ALL paid signature gatherers gather signatures under false pretenses?

          California progressives, go see what the Courage Campaign is up to.

          by tmo on Wed Jul 22, 2009 at 06:56:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I say ALL (0+ / 0-)

            For every paid signature gatherer working for a progressive cause, there are five (10? 25? 50?) out pimping for the lastest wingnut solution.  In the interest of "shared sacrifice", we need to give up our paid campaigns for free range golden geese so we can kill off the efforts to ban women from the vote, or whatever scheme these people come up with next.

      •  born in CA (also 3rd generation) (0+ / 0-)

        that out of stater is spot on.

        The initiative process has lead to this, and CA is ungovernable.

        The Amber Spyglass, by Philip Pullman, is an atheist's manifesto.

        by coigue on Wed Jul 22, 2009 at 07:32:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  at the earliest, 2010 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cardinal96, coigue

      you need the signatures to get it on the ballot, then you need to pass it with a 2/3 supermajority, then you need to hold a convention, then you need to call another special election referendum to ratify it, then you need to pass that with 2/3.

      prop 13 fucked us but good.

      surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

      by wu ming on Wed Jul 22, 2009 at 06:27:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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