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View Diary: A news story about sexual offenders and what boys should learn in sex education class (100 comments)

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  •  Very good diary. I totally understand your (6+ / 0-)

    concern upon hearing your daughter's statement.  This whole issue is so complicated and difficult to unravel, and you're brave to tackle it.  I don't think you're grasping for straws; but I do think that it's all very complicated and not "solveable" through one sort of social or cultural change-- for example, the one you suggest at the end of the diary.  

    I'm a woman too, but I have to say I don't think in principle that going to prostitutes is "unhealthy" in the sense that it can be a business transaction between two consenting adults, who, it's true, are trafficking in their own flesh, which can make it an emotionally and morally fraught transaction.  But in principle I don't think it's necessarily unhealthy.  I wouldn't equate it with extremely unhealthy, monstrous things like child molestation.

    •  Thank you. Yes it was difficult to write (5+ / 0-)

      And don't get me wrong. I am not at all concerned with prostitution, because as far as I am concerned it's between two consenting adults.

      I was just going down the list of male sexual practices and things that differentiate us and then asking the very difficult question: why?  

      •  That one might be a good chunk biological (4+ / 0-)

        There are a lot of good studies out there on the differences between the sexes in relation to desire for numbers of partners, frequency and pattern of sexual desire, etc that relate directly to biology.

        Previously, men were 'genetically successful' if they mated as widely as possible, attempting to father as many children as possible, whereas women were more likely to pass on genes by tying themselves to the strongest protector as tightly as they could.

        Obviously, modern society doesn't require such a strict adherence to such biological imperatives, but evolution depends on the passing of genes, and so is tied to generational changes and human generations are relatively long, so change is slow, and we hold to outdated evolutionary patterns.

        Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

        by Ezekial 23 20 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:50:39 PM PDT

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        •  Excellent! I love this argument (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          allep10, unfinished60sbusiness

          I agree. The root of it is biological. The urges are natural. Males have a Y and an X chromosome, females two X's.
          Males are more aggresive by nature, they produce more testosterone.

          The genetic material in our cells has not changed since the time of the cave men (and cave women) - because human genes evolve so slow. We share the same biological makeup with them, yet, look how far we have come. We have street lights and we stop when it's red (most of us). We learn manners, we have laws. Most of us are suposed to partner up with just one person (even if it may not make biological sense). But we call this progress.

          My point is, can we teach young boys exactly that: that the biological aspect makes these feelings normal, but that in order to move forward in society, to live side by side with other people, we need to practice some healthy restrain, just find some balance, not over do certain things. Be proud that we are no longer living in the caves (although I have heard of some people still living in caves...).

          And is it possible that this simplistic approach by caring parents or schools (when there are no caring parents )could have some major effect?

          Just a hypothesis.

          •  I respectfully disagree. (11+ / 0-)

            Evolutionary psychology, which attempts to explain cultural behavior patterns through evolutionary biology, is notoriously weak.  Behaviors don't fossilize.  There's no reason to believe that our Paleolithic ancestors had value systems anything like our own.

            Granted, this is a broad generalization, but contemporary hunter-gatherers and other non-industrialized human societies tend to tolerate very little in the way of interpersonal coercion, at least within the social group.

            It really doesn't have to be this way.  Men are not naturally assholes, any more than women are.  Men are exactly as capable of rational thought, emotional maturity, and self-control as women are.  I'm convinced that if more women truly expected the men in their lives to act like grown-ups, that more men would act like grown-ups in their personal lives.

            •  Ezekial wasn't talking about evolutionary (4+ / 0-)

              psychology. He was talking about evolutionary biology, which changes much slower than psychology. It's not a question of learning manners, it's a question of how arguably the most basic human urge interacts with an individual's personal history, and then how that combination interacts with a particular culture's standards of acceptable behavior.

        •  I concur, Ezekial. (3+ / 0-)
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          kurt, OHdog, Ezekial 23 20

          And another aspect of this is that sexual mores vary wildly from culture to culture. What are common practices in many foreign countries would be serious offenses in this country. I believe societies have a legitimate interest in regulating many types of sexual activity, but it is very counter-productive to label everyone a sexual predator when there are so many different degrees of these types of offenses. To lump indecent exposure in with serial rape is ridiculous.

    •  The more time a guy spends with prostitutes... (0+ / 0-)

      ...the more damaged his outlook on relationships and women becomes. Same for the women.
      "In principle" is bullshit, in the face of the obvious spiritual (at minimum) harm that accrues from selling sex.
      It is not merely coincidence that when you get to know prostitiutes, more resemble the doggies that'll never leave the shelter than anything else.
      Prostitution is no more healthy than fight clubs, another case of consenting adults transacting with their bodies.
      Their ain't no happy face to put on whoring.

      I'm the plowman in the valley - with my face full of mud

      by labradog on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 07:17:03 AM PDT

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