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View Diary: Ask Senators For Balance In MidEast "Dear Colleague" Letter (Updated) (235 comments)

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  •  I have no idea what you're talking about. (7+ / 0-)

    A "country" is an entity defined by borders, as it is borders which separate one country from another country.  So for you to say that "Israel will have peace when it becomes a country of equal rights" means, by definition, that you are saying that Israel will have peace when it grants equal rights to everyone who lives within its borders.

    I'm saying that I disagree with that.  I think it would be great if Israel did that, and I think it would be great if all countries did that, but no, I do not think that that is sufficient for true peace.  And where you get your question about Palestinians is beyond me.

    •  Think you may be talking past each other (6+ / 0-)

      I think he's including the occupied territories when he discusses Israel.  

      Or maybe I misread.

      What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

      by Alec82 on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:25:33 PM PDT

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      •  Could be. (6+ / 0-)

        I have no idea.  But that would make sense if he is oh so subtly arguing for a one-state solution, and is also equally oh so subtly arguing that that one state should be called Israel.  Because the subtle way he framed that oh so subtle argument would then include the occupied territories within the country he is calling Israel.

      •  He is just babbling the same message (4+ / 0-)

        over and over again. He has no idea about the subject - in fact he once said that holocaust survivors escaping Germany were terrorists. One of the better moments of I/P commentating.

        He has no idea what the issues are, how the state was formed - nothing, nada. Just unbelievable.

        Pigs are not notably aerodynamic, are they?

        by volleyboy1 on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:29:42 PM PDT

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        •  You will have to reference that! (0+ / 0-)

          I did not say that holocaust survivors were terrorists.   I said that Palestine was invaded and taken over by a bunch of terrorists.   There is little dispute in that.

          You are running out of steam if you can’t quote me properly.

          •  Joe you absolutely did say that - (0+ / 0-)

            I said that many fled the Holocaust - or people that came to Israel right after the War. A lot of these people added to the Yishuv. You in turn said that these people were terrorists. Not too mention, that you seriously have a lack of knowledge relative to the military status of the Yishuv.

            There were terror groups on both sides. On the Jewish side there was the Irgun (led by Menachem Begin) and the Stern Gang (led by Yitzhak Shamir). Both of these groups were small players - no more than 10% of armed Yishuv forces. They were isolated and never part of the government.

            If you are maintaining that:

            Palestine was invaded and taken over by a bunch of terrorists.

            and since a ton of people ran from Europe to Israel in the run up to 1948 aren't you calling those people terrorists?

            BTW, you realize it was the Jews and the Bedouin / Jordanians(The Arab Legion) that fought on the side of the British in WWII - right? You do know that?

            Pigs are not notably aerodynamic, are they?

            by volleyboy1 on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:04:24 AM PDT

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    •  Israel is attempting to eliminate... (0+ / 0-)

      Israel is attempting to eliminate its undesired minority by forcing them from their homes and then drawing its border to exclude them.   It is what Apartheid South Africa tried with its "Homelands Policy" but the world recognized the obvious ploy.

      Why should we recognize Israel's homelands policy when we rejected it in South Africa?

      I am a supporter of "The One State Solution".   Israel should be a country of those who live there.   There should be no group given a privileged position at the top.   It should be a country of equal rights.   That is how it will find peace.

      •  Then you're not a Democrat (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Because no part of the Democratic party (e.g. not a single elected official in the House, the Senate or the Executive branch) supports a one-state solution.  Don't know what you are, but kindly frolic amongst your own.

        "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

        by oldskooldem on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 08:49:22 AM PDT

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        •  While I agree that no Democrat of any (10+ / 0-)

          prominence supports a one-state solution, there doesn't seem to be a litmus test for determining who is, and who isn't, a Democrat.

          Remember that this is the party that couldn't stop Joe Lieberman from re-signing up after leaving it to form his own party to run against the Democratic Party candidate.

        •  So Democrats are only Democrats (8+ / 0-)

          when they become elected officials?  That's news to me and to lots of other people.

          BTW, by your definition here, you yourself are not a Democrat...unless, of course, you've been elected somewhere.

          •  No Democrats are people who support (0+ / 0-)

            Democratic party principles.  And the one state solution is supported by absolutely not a single solitary elected Democrat.  It isn't a Democratic party principle.  There are 2 Democratic Muslims in Congress.  Its not supported by them.  There are a number of Arab Congresspeople like Jeanne Shaheen and Nick Rahall.  It isn't supported by them.

            To reiterate, it is supported by absolutely NO ONE.

            "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

            by oldskooldem on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 10:01:58 AM PDT

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            •  But even that (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Aunt Martha, Terra Mystica, rbguy

              doesn't make support of a two-state solution a necessary condition for being a Democrat.

              In fact, rather the opposite is true; most Democratic Party leaders, pious blather notwithstanding, tend to support a one-state solution.  That one state is called Israel and it is a Jewish state.

            •  And what, pray tell, is a Democratic (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              corvo, Alec82

              party principle?  For example, as you well know, Democrats have very different ideas about what constitutes an appropriate health care policy.  Or an appropriate economic policy.  Or an appropriate anti-terrorism policy.

              Are you going to go only by what's written in the platform every 4 years?  Is someone only a Democrat who agrees fully with that?  Or are you going by something else?

              Or what about abortion?  Democrats, elected and not elected, are all over the place regarding that.  So what exactly is the Democratic party principle in that regard?

              Never mind that your fealty to elected officials in Washington, DC, is, well, interesting.  And your notion that someone is only a Democrat if they are in 100% agreement with something or other is remarkably narrow.  So much for an open tent policy, so to speak.

        •  The Democrats support equal rights! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          There was a time when the Democratic Party was the party of segregation.   That was wrong and most Democrats recognize that.   Today, the Democratic Party is the party of equal rights.   It is the moral position.

          The fact that most Democrats do not support equal rights in Israel is also wrong.   As we begin to see the reality of Israel we cannot help but change.   The US and the Democratic Party is in transition, the reality of Israel is becoming impossible to ignore.   One day we will apply our principles to Israel.

      •  You have proof that Israeli (4+ / 0-)

        Arabs - those who live inside the 1967 borders and are citizens are being forced out of their homes and into the West Bank or Gaza. This is a big story if you can prove it.

        Pigs are not notably aerodynamic, are they?

        by volleyboy1 on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:55:39 AM PDT

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