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View Diary: Gates and Crowley: Of Course It’s Racial (87 comments)

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  •  What makes it worse (6+ / 0-)

    is that it's also a "man thing".  In other words, a prick waving contest.  Man in his castle, big time law enforcement man.  Testosterone and the male ego always make things worse

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King

    by zenbassoon on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 08:11:29 PM PDT

    •  absolutely (0+ / 0-)

      Violence (verbal or otherwise) is almost always gendered.

    •  agreed, but you have to look at who started it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Demena, Sportin Life

      Crowley was just responding to a 911 call. Gates is the one who brought out the "I'm an Ivy League professor you're just a dumb cop" elitist attitude, and Crowley only responded in kind.  I blame the one who started it.

      •  This isn't a school yard fight-- (9+ / 0-)

        One man has a gun and that man was charged with keeping the peace.

      •  I blame the man who is professionally trained (8+ / 0-)

        to de-escalate rapidly escalating, potentially dangerous situations.  That would be Officer Crowley.  

        After all, what was Gates going to do to the police officer--shoot him?  Taser him?  Tackle him and tickle him unmercifully until Crowley said "Uncle"?

        After verifying that Gates did indeed reside at the address, all the officer had to do was apologize for the inconvenience and LEAVE.  Period. End of story.  No false arrest charges being brought, then having to be dropped due to no laws being broken.  

        •  A call for a Locksmith (0+ / 0-)

          upon showing the proper ID would have been considerate.

          •  He had already gotten into his house. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rmx2630, Cynic in seattle

            Really, the cop should have said, "so sorry to have bothered you sir.  Have a nice day," and left.  Job done, no crime here, move on.

            •  Under no circumstances (0+ / 0-)

              would I call some engaged in vilifying me 'sir'.  I would call him by his name with appropriate title (ie. Professor Gates) but he has forfeited the right to expect me to address him as 'sir'.

              Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

              by Demena on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:47:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  He was on the clock. (0+ / 0-)

                He was at work.  That would have been the appropriate response.  When dealing with the public is part of your job, it is also part of your job to be polite and walk away at times.  Given that he had just accused a 50-something man with a cane of breaking and entering into his own house, a "sir" would have been the least he could have come up with.  One person was in his house minding his own business, the other was doing his job.  Who had the obligation to be polite?

                •  Oh, right... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  rockhound, Darmok

                  "Accused".  Yeah terrific.  You know what that tells me?  You are prepared to lie to maintain your point of view.  You are prepared to believe your own lies to.

                  Not even Gates claims he was "accused" of anything, merely asked.

                  Who had the obligation to be polite?  Every civilised human being on the planet.

                  Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                  by Demena on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 12:26:21 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  But at this point the man was still refusing to (0+ / 0-)

              provide ID. The Harvard ID he did provide had to be verified, and when the cop stepped outside to make the call Gates began a scene outside, trying to yell at the police through the cop's equipment.

      •  sorry, no (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lysias, rmx2630, debedb, myboo, DrJeremy, miss SPED

        That's not how it works. Police don't get to arrest people just because they behave like jerks. Who started it is irrelevant. Setting the racial question aside, the sole question for Crowley was whether he had legal justification to arrest Mr. Gates. He got that question wrong.

      •  Were you there? (0+ / 0-)

        Because that's an awfully big assumption.  Or maybe tapes have been released, in which case I would be wrong and you're not assuming anything, just repeating what you heard played off the tapes?

      •  and you believe Crowley.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kid funkadelic

        not Gates.  Wonder why?

        "I aint scared of Al Quaeda, I'm scared of Al Cracker"-Chris Rock...

        by vmm918 on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:29:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  because gates hasn't denied the outburst (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rockhound, Darmok

          or anything else - hasn't denied refusing to give in ID, and hasn't denied the yelling on the lawn - can't, since there are neighbors who are witnesses. He only says he was being harassed. But really, everyone who gets stopped by a cop and asked to provide ID gets harassed.

          On another blog it was pointed out that even if Gates owns his home, the fact that he forced entry means that cops need to check that he isn't being kept out of the home for domestic or child abuse reasons. Coulda been totally routine... and probably woulda been except for gates heightened response.

      •  And how do you know Gates "brought out" the (8+ / 0-)

        "Ivy League Attitude"?
        If ANY attitude was brought out, it's more likely it was the "I'm exhausted from a cross-world trip, and I don't want to be treated like a criminal in my own fuckin home" attititude, not an "elitist" attitude.
        And I would have felt the same way.

        Plus now we know that Gates wasn't quite as "confrontational" and "belligerant" and "loud" as the officer says he was, since Prof. Gates was suffering from a throat affliction and the tapes bear that out as well.
        So - what we got is two guys who are puffed up and believe they have the right of way.

        Well- Prof Gates complied and showed his ID, and proved he was in his own house.  But Ofc Crowley DID NOT comply with the perfectly reasonable and legal request to show his OWN ID and badge number when requested by a legal and law abiding citizen of these United States.  

        In fact, Officer Crowley escalated the situation when he REFUSED to comply with a legal request to show his own ID.  I mean, Professor Gates was originally thought to be an intruder and had to prove he was not.  Who's to say Officer Crowley wasn't some sort of intruder or corrupt cop intent on burglarizing Mr. Gates when he was in his house.  Not like it's impossible.  Not like it's never happened.  
        People ask for ID all the time from all sorts of workers who enter their homes.  What's the big deal?  Why shouldn't the officer give his ID too, if he demanded as such from Mr. Gates?

        To me, this is what escalated the situation, and this is what set Ofc. Crowley off.  Cops don't like to be asked for THEIR ID.  Period.  But Gates had every right to see that ID, just as Crowley had every right to see Gates's ID.  Who showed his ID, and who resisted that request with force?

        Just food for thought...

        You have the right to free speech... As long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it! -The Clash

        by DemandTruth on Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:36:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Who's to say (0+ / 0-)

          Gates hadn't raped his wife and the reason he had to force his way in was because he had a restraining order against him or to keep him from abusing his children? It's not like it's never happened. Food for thought too..

          He had a responsibility to provide ID the first two times he was asked. He could have patiently waited for the ID to be checked out. THEN he could have thrown the officer out of his home. But he refused twice, and then yelled at the cop while he was on the phone checking the Harvard University ID (Gates didn't have a driver's license or state ID apparently.)

          As for the Officer providing ID - from the way the report was written, Gates was asking repeatedly for the officer's name - and then trying to talk to the officer's superior by yelling at the walkie-talkie...

          I am not sure what the cop could have done more that would have been in good conscience. Everyone's making a big deal about this being a 50 year old man with a cane or whatever, which bothers me. My dad is 77 and a pretty tough fighter when he wants to be! You don't assume anyone is innocent, and you can't even take ID for granted when there's been a break-in (thieves have been known to use ID they found on bedroom dressers or in kitchen to fake their way out of cop problems before.)

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