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View Diary: Sen. Merkley Calls Out Opponents of Health Care Reform (293 comments)

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  •  What are "gold-plated" plans? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bmeis

    Plans that actually provide good coverage with low copays and deductibles?

    The bipartisanly pleasing primary target of this is union-negotiated plans.  This is bullshit.

    Tax the insurance companies on their earnings in excess of a reasonable profit.  Better yet, abolish for-profit insurance for primary care and give people a public option.

    www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

    by chuckvw on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 04:13:37 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The executive type plans explained in the link (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mollyk, FarWestGirl

      Goldman Sacks has $40,000 family plans - no copays, no constraints.

      •  My suspicion is that (0+ / 0-)

        that would apply to too few policies to make a difference.  I have heard rethugs and blue dogs talking about union-negotiated "gold-plated" plans, also, which is, as I said, bullshit.

        www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

        by chuckvw on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 04:58:21 PM PDT

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        •  It's not bullshit (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bmeis

          If you define a gold-plated plan as one that pays for everything, forever, even after retirement then there ARE gold plated union plans.    

          Remember, nobody is telling anybody how much they can spend on health care, just how much should be tax deductable, and thereby subsidized by other taxpayers who get far less.

          Compare it to the home mortgage tax deduction.    A buyer of a multi-million dollar home gets full tax deductability, just like buyers of $200,000 homes.  

          All allowances for tax deductions should have upper limits.  There is no reason to subsidize waste and indulgence.      

          See for example people who visit chiropractors 20 times a year just because their coverage allows it.   There is no scientific evidence that chiropractic does anybody any good, and there is no science behind it.

          Religion gives men the strength to do what should not be done.

          by bobtmn on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 06:00:20 PM PDT

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          •  i think the Alternative Minimum tax would (0+ / 0-)

            remove most of the tax break on a multimillion dollar home's mortgage payment and property taxes.

            In NJ, many people with $500,000 home routinely are hit with the AMT.

          •  So working people (0+ / 0-)

            who are getting precisely the kind of health care we think everyone should have must be punished in order to achieve that end? Sorry.  Bullshit.

            www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

            by chuckvw on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 07:47:39 PM PDT

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            •  Disagree .. (0+ / 0-)

              Its not what "we think" because I don't think everyone should get that level of care.   I don't even think it is very likely to be good for you.   The amount of treatment that is provided without scientific justification is off the charts.

              Many tests and treatments are simply bad for you.  Many may be harmless but do no good.   People spend lots and lots of money on things that don't help.    It should not be encouraged.

              The fact is, most people are healthy and do not need to see doctors except for reassurance.    Some people will use medical services just to get attention that they should get elsewhere.

              I'm happy to support tax deduction for a level of service that helps, but not an open checkbook that will be exploited by profiteers, regardless of whether we get a public plan or not.

              Religion gives men the strength to do what should not be done.

              by bobtmn on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:33:28 PM PDT

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              •  You're talking about something quite (0+ / 0-)

                different than taxing some working folks health care.  Perhaps you disagree with me, but I think everyone should have access cradle to grave to fully portable health care.  If not single payer - and that's an embittering concession - then at least a universal public option that sets national standards for drug and treatment costs and that employers and individuals could opt into from day one...  If the rich prefer something different, gold-plated and drenched in chocolate - I don't really give a shit - I'm all for them paying the full toll out of pocket.

                Unions would much rather negotiate for wages and quality of life improvements than for health care. They would happily sign up for a real public option. You don't see how the issue of "gold-plated" health care is intended as a wedge between Democrats and a core constituency?

                www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

                by chuckvw on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:53:35 PM PDT

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                •  Didn't mean to overstrike "cradle to grave" (0+ / 0-)

                  www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

                  by chuckvw on Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 09:55:09 PM PDT

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                •  With this, I agree (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  chuckvw

                  One of the things that I feel we have lost in our constant battle to counter right wing bullshit is that they have made it so hard to have substantive discussions about the details of a solution without being accused of "Disarray".

                  I always have wondered how the wingers decide who to line up behind when they fall into formation to support some Dear Leader.  

                  Intelligent, informed people tend to deal with facts.  We have to discuss how to solve problems, and they even use that against us.

                  Religion gives men the strength to do what should not be done.

                  by bobtmn on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:11:46 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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