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View Diary: WGLB:  curing the variants (263 comments)

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  •  Well, they are not monlithic (0+ / 0-)

    They are not a "they". I'm uncomfortable with this constant othering and constructing phantoms and demons. The real evil is the gaze that perceives evil in what is no more than a reflection returning back to you.

    And yeah, "they" do the same thing but the answer to that isn't more of it.

    You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

    by MnplsLiberal on Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 10:30:31 AM PDT

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    •  Oh, please. (9+ / 0-)

      There is a "they".  You can deny it, but there is a segment of American culture viscerally opposed to other people's basic freedoms of and from religion and to live their lives as they wish.

      And GLBT people did not literally DECLARE a culture war.  People like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson did.

      Sure, they may differ from one another and not always agree on every point.  If you were to wave this away as not existing, you couldn't have a conversation about it at all.  But that doesn't make them go away.  And there is a matrix of these kinds of people, your arm waving aside.

      "I'm sorry, I just don't have the votes" - Me, sometime in November, 2010 (-6.62, -6.26)

      by AndyS In Colorado on Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 10:34:29 AM PDT

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      •  I'm quite serious (0+ / 0-)

        and I didn't wave away the fact that there are those who are violent. I just see the broader picture and do not agree that the way you eliminate violence is through more violence.

        They way you do it is through having compassion for the other. That's what Obama did this week. He behaved compassionately to both sides instead of escalating the conflict.

        And he succeeded, he won, and that strategy will almost always win except for the extreme case of direct physical violence. The opposite strategy, that of amping up the rhetoric which many here wanted Obama to do, is a losing strategy.

        The proper answer to the Falwells and Robertsons of the world is not to respond in kind.

        You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

        by MnplsLiberal on Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 10:45:27 AM PDT

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        •  Perhaps you were under the misapprehension (8+ / 0-)

          I didn't recognize your screen name the moment you appeared in this diary.

          You do whatever you do -- but I'm not in the least interested in your opinion about anything.

          "I'm sorry, I just don't have the votes" - Me, sometime in November, 2010 (-6.62, -6.26)

          by AndyS In Colorado on Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 10:50:43 AM PDT

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          •  So I take it you have nothing? (0+ / 0-)

            Obama's strategy = WIN!

            Your strategy = FAIL!

            The only time the power strategy actually works is when you have, you know, actual power. Otherwise it's utility is short term and somewhat limited. It needs to be constantly inflated in order to be effective. What the dominance strategy of power really reveals is a lack of power, not it's presence. It is in short a sign of impotence.

            You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

            by MnplsLiberal on Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 11:06:17 AM PDT

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            •  Are you always this simplistic? (9+ / 0-)

              The broader society does not always understand the connections between many of the things in their lives they find inimicable and threatening to their rights and the anti-gay right.  It IS in our interest to point out these connections whenever possible.

              I have outlined no specific "strategy", only what the broader society must do in the broadest possible terms if they do not wish to be battling people who want to take away their basic civil rights for the next hundred years.

              That goes for women.  That goes for black people.  It goes for Hispanic people.  It goes for immigrants coming to this country to make a better life.  That goes for GLBT people as well.  That goes for all the people who are routinely denied rights or have it advocated by what in many instances are the very same people.

              And collectively, these oppressed people that the Christianoid right wants to limit and hem about with their value system make up a majority right now.  It is only by unity that we can prevail.  And telling these people, collectively, where to get off.

              I made the argument that this is not just about us.  But you skipped right over that into a basic power play philosophy.  

              Who is not listening to whom?

              And that is why I am done with you.  You're just trolling and trying to get a rise.  You have no other reason for being here.

              "I'm sorry, I just don't have the votes" - Me, sometime in November, 2010 (-6.62, -6.26)

              by AndyS In Colorado on Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 11:22:31 AM PDT

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              •  Is that what Obama did this week? (0+ / 0-)

                Did he tell "those people" where they could get off? Or did he employ a different strategy? One that actually works as opposed to feeding one's puffed up self righteous rage?

                So here you are advocating a specific strategy all the while telling me that you have "outlined no specific "strategy"".

                'Tis wondrous strange that.

                You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

                by MnplsLiberal on Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 11:38:51 AM PDT

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                •  Heh, maybe in your world. You're funny. (8+ / 0-)

                  In my world, a strategy is much more than saying "we should tell these people the culture is not going to do their bidding just because they want something".  You know, there's planning and specific actions involved.

                  That's very like saying "We should crush them!" is a strategy.  I think as a country we should begin treating people who are against the civil rights of others with a much less accommodating voice than we have, as a country, in the past.  But that does not make a "strategy".  A "strategy" is more than that.

                  But it's illuminating that to you it is.  Heh.

                  Beyond that, I think Obama would not really want people like you representing his philosophy or claiming to be like him.  Obama tries inclusion first -- just as we (most gay people) try this again and again throughout their lives.  Eventually they realize that some people just have to be marginalized so that people can simply live in peace.

                  You say you're gay, but you evince very little of the lifetime of understanding most gay people have inculcated in them at a very much younger age.

                  It is possible that some very few active anti-gay people could be won over by some sort of inclusive philosophy.  But that is not my experience, nor is it the experience of most gay people I talk to.

                  Some anti-gay people do change .. but we are talking about movements here, not individuals.  

                  "I'm sorry, I just don't have the votes" - Me, sometime in November, 2010 (-6.62, -6.26)

                  by AndyS In Colorado on Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 11:50:00 AM PDT

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