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View Diary: Wait Until You See What I Got From Liberty University! (95 comments)

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  •  er. Um. (4+ / 0-)
    What kind of control over ones thoughts and feelings do you think is required to exist for years as someone who is immediately clockable as transsexual by everyone, to raise the money for both gender reassignment surgery an enough surgery to mostly pass OK, to convince everyone you meet who knows your history that you are really a person and that's OK?  

    I'm not going to even try to address your underlying issue -- that trans folks should just sit on a rock and get over it.  That's a genuine philosophical difference (though if you'd known the trans folks I have, you might see it differently) But don't -- just don't -- think that this requires anything less than more discipline and awareness than most folks will muster in a lifetime.

    ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

    by jessical on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 11:15:11 AM PDT

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    •  I should have just stuck with the moving. (6+ / 0-)

      It's just so outrageous to be told, as a transwoman, to "Suck it up and grow a pair."

    •  I didn't quite say it that way (1+ / 0-)
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      The surgery is a very drastic step. I don't want to be insensitive, and I apologize if it seems that way.

      I'd never tell anyone not to have sex reassignment surgery.

      I guess I should just say it is beyond my comprehension and leave it at that.

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference.

      by blue aardvark on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 01:14:55 PM PDT

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      •  Nobody is going to force you... (5+ / 0-) have sex reassignment surgery.  Nobody even expects you necessarily to comprehend why they would do so.

        What we would expect is that you give us the respect to know what is best for us and realize that the process we have to go through is quite complex and not the result of a whim.

      •  thanks for coming back... (3+ / 0-)

        ...while the text world has its limitations, I value the very light community on here.  The general gist of the discussion here made me physically ill, honestly.  

        Trans is a hard thing to explain to anyone, actually.  Some of the best advocates and most humane people I know get to "beyond my comprehension and leave it at that".  Its a wise pause point :))

        In terms of social cost, and medical argument would be, simply, that one ends up with a better society when even things which are a little out thee to most folks get covered.  Trans women have an HIV rate equivalent or higher than sub saharan africa, are subject to all sorts of violence, and a seventy percent or so unemployment rate, by some estimates.  I think that 10 or 20k for SRS and passing surgery is a very small price to pay to let people into the system in a way that works for many of them, and insures that the general theme is one of open doors and care.  If there were a lot of trans women wanting surgery, it might be different; but the whole lot of us in the world wouldn't fill the bleachers at a Mariners game.  

        Anyway, thanks again for coming back and for giving it a second thought.

        ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

        by jessical on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 01:33:17 PM PDT

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        •  All I know about it. (2+ / 0-)
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          Something the Dog Said, jessical

          I have been to multiple presentations where trans people have said for them, it was "change or die".

          I have a dear (RL) friend who is trans who has taught me much about courage.  I have dear RL friends whose children are trans.  Our PFLAG

          I'm tired of the ignorant bullcrap, such the idea that SRS is cosmetic or somehow optional surgery.  There are standards of care, which have some of their own flaws - I think it's a long time to be pre-operative in a target gender in the cultural environment (it's just not that safe).  

          As long as the standards of care are met, and it's been deemed by appropriate medical professionals that a procedure is necessary (in the case of trans people, sometimes it's multiple procedures) it should be covered.

          And so-called progressives need to shed fear of standing for this simple, common sense, and humane proposition.

          What is the most loving thing I can do, right now? Rev Dr Mary Harrington

          by sberel on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 06:38:33 PM PDT

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          •  I agree (2+ / 0-)
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            sberel, Something the Dog Said

            My argument comes from living places where it is covered.  And the resentment is no less than peeps have expressed in response to the diary.  I mean, trans folks are nuts, trans folks are sucking up our hard earned dollars, trans people are icky.  If you go to NL, it is all there, just like here.  The difference is, they cover it.  Not only SRS, the American transie's rallying cry, but electrolysis and the passing surgeries required to have something like a normal life, if that is your goal.  And the reason I think it is covered there is not because NL is some kind of utopia -- it ain't -- but because there is a commonsense willingness to accept that even things one does not understand and does not like all that much can be part of our common care for each other, our quality of life.  

            I know the standard argument is to hold up one's individual pain (in this and other things) -- and it is considerable, in this case -- or that of others -- change or die and so forth.  But ultimately social good is not measured by how badly I hurt, but whether one serves a class of people at a socially supportable cost.  I actually don't think it matters (except to me) if my fellow progressives find me disgusting.  I really can't do a thing about that.  But I can say, with great certainty and to a wide audience, that medical services -- including but not limited to SRS, which encompass quality of life -- serve us, include us, and open up both health and social/employment venues which would otherwise be closed.  And that inclusion benefits society, speaks directly to the social contract and how people treat each other.  Because I've seen that argument work in places with social health systems, and because I think it's true, I'm running with it for now :}

            ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

            by jessical on Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 07:15:37 PM PDT

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