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View Diary: Is Max Baucus Writing the White House Bill? (268 comments)

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  •  The fact that this comment hasn't been troll rated (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    allie123, math4barack, Egalitare
    Into oblivion should be an absolute siren blairing into the white house's ears.  

    In any event,  your input is usesless and unhelpful.  If you can't discuss this like an adult, please find another site to peruse.  

    "Republicans drove the country into a ditch and now they are complaining about the cost of the tow truck"-Jim Cornette

    by justmy2 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:06:31 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  There's going to be much more anger than this (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      expatjourno, justmy2, greenearth, allie123

      if how it looks now (Progressives and the American people getting screwed - again) is true.

      Just wait.

      The crooks are leaving have left office, unprosecuted and scot-free.

      by BentLiberal on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:25:18 PM PDT

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      •  And getting screwed is what I'm trying to prevent (0+ / 0-)

        Everyone has a role. Mine is bad cop.

        Barack Obama is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

        by expatjourno on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:30:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I didn't see your comment as produtive (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          expatjourno, justmy2

          Just angry

          The crooks are leaving have left office, unprosecuted and scot-free.

          by BentLiberal on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:35:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And maybe you're right. But what do you mean by.. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            greenearth, BentLiberal

            ..."productive"? I think it's very had to say which comments are more likely to move the WH in a positive direction. I'm in favor of raising the anger level and the loudness level because I think the WH takes Progressives for granted.

            But I'm even more in favor of trying a whole multitude of approaches. Hopefully, one of them will work and I don't care if it's my way or your way as long as it works!

            Barack Obama is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

            by expatjourno on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:42:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you know no one here thinks Obama is corrupt (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              expatjourno

              thus, your comment was unproductive...

              do you really believe that?

              "Republicans drove the country into a ditch and now they are complaining about the cost of the tow truck"-Jim Cornette

              by justmy2 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:44:26 PM PDT

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              •  No "thus" about it. On the contrary. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                greenearth

                If no one here thinks Obama is corrupt, Obama is getting the benefit of the doubt in a way he's no longer entitled to. Yes, I think his integrity is very questionable. Secrecy, warrantless wiretapping, preventive detention, trillions to Wall Street, et cetera.

                He is as different from his campaign persona as George Bush was. Change we can believe in. Uniter, not a divider. You tell me which one was the bigger crock of shit.

                So I start from the proposition that Obama misled people about who he was in a very big way. Then there's the bail-out. Or, as I like to call it, the biggest single act of larceny in human history.

                There is significant evidence that he is corrupt. Maybe not enough for most people here, but not infinitesimal. And, of course, he might mean well but is just in over his head, misled by corrupt advisors. Also possible.

                I would so like to be wrong.

                Barack Obama is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

                by expatjourno on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 04:03:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  i call bullshit on that (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  justmy2

                  significant evidenence that he's corrupt? like what? that his political analysis of what is possible when taking on the vested interests that represent 1/6th of our economy is different from yours? or maybe your expectations were out of whack and never took into account the impact of the worst financial crisis in 60 years would have on his preferred agenda.

                  you hate the bailout? great. easy position to take when you have no responsibility for the outcome. but if we did nothing, where would healthcare be right now if the financial system had not stabilized and we were instead dealing with a crisis that threatened to wipe our your FDIC insured savings?  

                  i don't like some of the deals we are being maneuvered into either. but i don't see them as corruption on Obama's part. i think he's a realist that accepts the imperfections of washington and tries to get the best out of a bad system. and he's mature enough to accept that people on both sides won't be happy about it, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.

                  •  Nobel prize-winning economists said at the time.. (0+ / 0-)

                    ...that the cash for trash kind of bail-out that Bush-Paulson-Obama-Geithner have embarked on is inherently less transparent and more open to corruption than nationalization. I take it you thought it was fine and dandy when Bush-Paulson were doing it.

                    Well I didn't.

                    As for "doing nothing," I wasn't aware that I had suggested "doing nothing." Where, pray tell, did I suggest "doing nothing"? Or was that just an egregious example of a straw man?

                    The fact that you are bringing FDIC insured savings into it simply shows how uninformed you are about the nature of the meltdown. FDIC insured savings were never at risk. Hedge funds and investment banks were at risk. Obama (and Bush before him) opted to pay off the bets that gigantic hedge funds and investment banks had made with counterparties that were no longer solvent.

                    So adopting an inherently corrupt solution to the crisis, when there were less corrupt alternatives, combined with the huge disconnect between the campaign and Obama's actions as president, are significant data points. I've connected the dots one way. If you want to connect the dots differently, fine, but I think you are being naïve.

                    Barack Obama is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

                    by expatjourno on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 05:40:47 PM PDT

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                    •  all of that rejects political reality (0+ / 0-)

                      which is easy to do if you're paul krugman.

                      my reference to the threat to FDIC insurance savings was an assumption on my part that doing absolutely nothing to bail out the major banks risked the crisis spiraling to the point where FDIC insurance could have been overwhelmed. would it have happened, maybe not. but at the very least, that kind of approach would have prolong frozen credit markets and very little would have changed by now from where we were last winter.

                      i submit that if Obama had nationalize the major banks we would still be talking about banks and congress would have made it clear in the spring that healthcare would be off the table until the banks were re-privatized. instead, we have spent the entire summer talking about health care. we're only 10 months from the emergence of the worst financial crisis in decades, and Obama had emerged with the situation stabilizing and his agenda largley intact.

                      and for that, he's got self proclaimed experts proclaiming him to be the equivalent of the biggest presidential joke in american history.

                      and i'm the uniformed one?

    •  I wish that WOULD make it a siren. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenearth

      That's kind of the point. The WH gets plenty of pressure from Blue Dogs and teabaggers. there is no percentage in our side acting like this is a tea party. It's a GOOD thing if the WH (or whoever is in charge of keeping track of grass rots sentiment) gets the idea that people on the left are furious. So far, from his choice of Rick Warren at his inauguration to now, Obama has taken liberals for granted. We aren't going to get a good health care bill if that continues.

      Barack Obama is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

      by expatjourno on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:28:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  this is a much better way to make your point (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        expatjourno, greenearth

        I am right there with you on the fact that Obama has calculated that his base is not as important as moderates.  Funny how Rove played to his base and picked up seats and got his major issues past with the opposition party in power.  But Obama seems to think his base is useless to the prospects of success.

        We had a once in a lifetime chance to show the conservative ideology for what it was, and Obama intentionally let them off the mat.  

        That is just unbelievable to me...Democrats quite simply don't want to win in my opinion...at least they are not showing it..

        "Republicans drove the country into a ditch and now they are complaining about the cost of the tow truck"-Jim Cornette

        by justmy2 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:38:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  blaring... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      expatjourno, greenearth

      "Republicans drove the country into a ditch and now they are complaining about the cost of the tow truck"-Jim Cornette

      by justmy2 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:34:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's worth pointing out that Obama... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skrymir, greenearth

        ...made the same mistake (conceding too much from the start in a futile effort to get Repuke support) in the stimulus bill. So it's legitimate to wonder if this is intentional this time around.

        And he has been a big supporter of giving trillions of taxpayer dollars to Wall Street while opposing curbs on executive pay and dragging his feet on increased oversight.

        I think people need to look beyond the pretty words that come out of his mouth. He could surprise me, but his actions are more in keeping with a corrupt Chicago politician than they are with being a Progressive or liberal Democrat.

        Of course, I would be thrilled to be completely wrong!

        Barack Obama is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

        by expatjourno on Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 03:50:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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