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View Diary: Phrma to spend 150-200 million FOR HEALTHCARE REFORM (63 comments)

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  •  my point is... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    allie123

    you act like a desperate fool who thinks that if we don't do things a certain way the bill will die, and I think we have yet to see anyone do a good job explaining why we need to go further with the reform and why the pharmaceutical companies need to be held accountable and not be made a partner so they can keep gouging the public for years and years.

    "Basically, I have two speeds.... Hostile or smart-ass. Your choice."

    by jbou on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:45:51 AM PDT

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    •  Don't twist my words (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, Christin, panicbean, ban nock

      I never said Phrma shouldn't be held to account.  I'm saying, that by not doing it now, in the midst of having all of these other enemies.

      They're spending 150-200 million on pro-reform ads right in one month.  That's 1/3 the size Obama had during the entire 2 1/2 yr campaign.  If you can't see that it is beneficial to keep them either neutral or with us for just this fight, while allowing the possibility of fighting them later, then honestly, I don't know what the heck you are arguing.  

      •  yeah (0+ / 0-)

        make friends with them now so eventually we can stab them in the back? Is this the movies?

        "Basically, I have two speeds.... Hostile or smart-ass. Your choice."

        by jbou on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:51:40 AM PDT

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        •  That's exactly what the "deal" says (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          askew, Christin

          I'm only telling you what the deal is allowing.  Now, if they don't come back and attack them later, then something else was said.  But right now, it's absolutely necessary.

          •  so... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DaveVentura

            it is necessary to sell out to them now in hopes that one day we will have the guts to stand up to them and tell them to stop gouging us? This makes no sense.

            "Basically, I have two speeds.... Hostile or smart-ass. Your choice."

            by jbou on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:56:16 AM PDT

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            •  It makes perfect sense when you have other enemie (0+ / 0-)

              s.  We have phrma, AHIP, the hospitals, and finally to a lesser degree the opposition.  Taking a couple of those enemies off the table, right now, is a good thing.

              •  at what cost? (0+ / 0-)

                and we aren't taking them away, they are making sure they get to keep on making huge profits off people's illnesses.

                "Basically, I have two speeds.... Hostile or smart-ass. Your choice."

                by jbou on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:03:15 PM PDT

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                •  That's AHIP (0+ / 0-)

                  and they're still an enemy.  Which means they're going to get cut at the conference table.  Just watch what happens.

                  •  I am watching... (0+ / 0-)

                    and as of right now I like some things about the bills I have seen, but I do not like that the public option would not be open to everyone, I do not like that we are not providing basic coverage for all and then leaving it up to the individual to add supplemental insurance if they want it. And I am heated that we are not reigning in the drug companies and their price gouging.

                    "Basically, I have two speeds.... Hostile or smart-ass. Your choice."

                    by jbou on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:07:37 PM PDT

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      •  My problem is that when I go to (0+ / 0-)

        Town Hall meetings I don't want to look misinformed like teabagger.  I just told someone yesterday that it was only in the Baucus bill that medicare was banned from negotiating.  
        If a deal had to be made we are smart enough to get it.  But don't lie about it and try to manipulate people that are on his side to start with.

    •  cut the shit. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew

      my point is... (0+ / 0-)
      you act like a desperate fool

      and stop being an ass and insulting every diarist you disagree with.
      it's beyond disrespectful - it's churlish and ignorant.

      "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

      by Christin on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 11:54:05 AM PDT

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      •  why? (0+ / 0-)

        This diary is idiotic, and makes no sense. How do you make nice with a group of companies that are gouging a nation of consumers, and when you go to try and reform the system and reign in prices they join you and make a deal to spend a few million on ads, and cut out 8 billion a year so you leave them alone.

        It baffles my mind that people think this is a alright.

        "Basically, I have two speeds.... Hostile or smart-ass. Your choice."

        by jbou on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:00:57 PM PDT

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        •  again - still no need to insult the diarist (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          allie123

          Who is simply stating the obvious.
          Go up against and Pharm and Insurance companies, and see how quickly HCR goes nowhere.
          What's the sense o making an enemy of them when you can work with them?

          And what exactly is your proposal?
          Price limits on the free market?
          So should the government step in and say Mercedes cannot charge more than 20 K for a car
          That a house cannot sell for two million?
          Put them out of business?
          Have the government spend billions upon billions of dollars for research, studies, clinical trials - only to have most drugs fail to pass those and get written off?
          Do you think the US government has the money to fund both health care for its people and drug research, development and production?
          I mean really?
          Because we don't. It's one or the other.

          Pharm at least makes something.
          Insurance companies make squat.
          They just make their profit off of screwing over those who need treatment.

          It's so easy to blast Pharm - and when you ask people well what should be done?
          The simple answer of demanding they can only charge so much for a product the own and manufacture makes zero sense.
          Unless we do that for all the companies that make and own products they sell.

          They're working with BO to try to make this  work.
          But for some, nothing will be good enough.

          "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

          by Christin on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:13:04 PM PDT

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          •  you're an idiot too (0+ / 0-)

            taxpayers subsidize the creation of new drugs in this country. Government funded research is responsible for a good portion of actual new drugs that hit the market. Also, we need the power to tell doctors and insurance companies not to prescribe the name brand drugs that cost so much and instead prescribe the generic drug that does the same thing and is much cheaper.

            And, in a perfect world the health care industry as a whole would be not for profit.

            "Basically, I have two speeds.... Hostile or smart-ass. Your choice."

            by jbou on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:18:26 PM PDT

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            •  More insults? (0+ / 0-)

              Is that all you are capable of doing?
              Obviously - yes.
              So I need to talk to you in your language.
              You are an ignorant moron,and your simplistic asinine explanations are based on stupidity and hyperbole. You have no clue as to what you are spouting off.
              None.

              "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

              by Christin on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:31:18 PM PDT

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              •  have you read how... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                allie123

                much the government subsidizes drug research? I have, but yo seem to think that the free market somehow funds research and development of drugs. You seem to think it is okay for companies to profit from people being ill, I don't. In the rest of the industrialized world they have a not for profit health care system why can't we? I deal with reality, and if you don't like being called an idiot don't act like one. Do some reading and actually know what the fuck you're talking about.

                a detailed study by Dr Marcia Angell, the former editor of the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, says that only 14 per cent of their budgets go on developing drugs - usually at the uncreative final part of the drug-trail. The rest goes on marketing and profits. And even with that puny 14 per cent, drug companies squander a fortune developing "me-too" drugs - medicines that do exactly the same job as a drug that already exists, but has one molecule different, so they can take out a new patent, and receive another avalanche of profits

                "Basically, I have two speeds.... Hostile or smart-ass. Your choice."

                by jbou on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 12:43:45 PM PDT

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