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View Diary: Why End of Life Counseling is Imperative (256 comments)

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  •  Bonddad... (0+ / 0-)

    Thanks for the diary... My wife and I had living wills done after reading and hearing about the lady in Florida..

    Question... If you as a professional never tell your client what to do.. and you are more intelligent on the issue than any elected rep. would be by the nature of your profession...

    why should our government be able to tell a family what to do on one of the most important decisions they will ever make?

    •  huh? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, elfling, Amayi

      why should our government be able to tell a family what to do on one of the most important decisions they will ever make?

      what are you talking about.

      The govt merely says IF you have say a living will done, as you just did, and it cost you money to have it done, it ( the gov) will reimburse you.  Thats is all that is being discussed in this bill.

      (regarding the bank mess) They want to cure the patient but not deal with the disease.

      by dark daze on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 08:02:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And this... (0+ / 0-)

        reduces health care costs???

        •  No, not the point (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cotterperson, filby, mayim, Amayi

          The point of this provision was not to reduce health care costs.  It doesn't say in Sec 1233 that it's being done to reduce costs.  It was put in there because a number of reps just think that it's the right thing to do.

        •  Not the point (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cotterperson, mayim, dark daze

          As pointed out, reducing the cost of health care is not the point of this new benefit, which is fairly inexpensive in itself.  

          But if you want to consider costs, consider that a living will is an inexpensive document that can save lots of money later.  

          If someone does not want to be resuscitated (the individual, not what the family or doctor wants), DNR instructions are much cheaper than prolonging life artificially via life support.  

          Or you could leave instructions to your family that you want to die at home or in hospice, rather than in the hospital.  Many people also state how they want to be treated once dementia sets in, and this can alleviate many problems (including financial) for the family.

          Really, this is a benefit that most people want.

          ...someday - the armies of bitterness will all be going the same way. And they'll all walk together, and there'll be a dead terror from it. --Steinbeck

          by Seldom Seen on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 10:05:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's the right thing to do but also (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cotterperson

          People can choose to specify whatever they like in their living will: from "keep me alive at all costs" to "Do not resussitate".

          The cost for such a document is just a few hundred dollars, a lot of money compared to a daily budget, but not a lot of money compared to end of life health care.

          I am OK with spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for medical care that someone wants. But it makes no sense to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on unwanted medical care, for someone who would rather not have those measures taken - which may prolong life at the cost of a great deal of suffering.

          In that sense, it can reduce costs by reducing unnecessary and unwanted expenditures.

          Hospice care is another example. Yes, you're covering another service that people want - but the alternative isn't zero but instead covering much more expensive care that is against the wants of the patient.

          Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

          by elfling on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 10:39:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Did you read the diary? (7+ / 0-)

      It's about being sure patients have their personal rights to make a decision about their own deaths while they are still well enough to do it.

      When my 82 y/o dad had Class IV (end-stage) congestive heart failure, he hadn't made a living will. He didn't have enough oxygen getting to his brain to even know where he was.

      The doctor would have shocked his chest, causing burns and probably broken ribs. If he survived, they would have put him in the intensive care unit where he would have died either in pain or drugged into oblivion.

      The cost of torturing him at the end of his life would have been tremendous, because intensive care is extremely expensive. The sky is the limit.

      My wise mother took him home, where he was comfortable with Hospice care, and took care of him in familiar surroundings until he died a couple of months later.

      Since you appear to be a troll, I'll ignore your swipe at bonddad. Just in case you're not, I've shared one personal experience that is, I think, one excellent example of why this is important.

      "Jesus didn't come to take sides. He came to take over." -- Mark Pryor, DINO (Ark.)

      by cotterperson on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 09:13:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's okay.... (0+ / 0-)

        I've been called a troll... had my comments examined... been troll rated even... I didn't know what that was.. had my comments hidden...I'm finding out that this blog is not for a discussion of ideas.. my college profs taught me to challenge ALL points of view.. so I do.. This site is advertised(by reading the comments) as a thinking person's site.. However, if you have a different thought from the majority here, I appear to be a troll, as you so state.  So be it...

        My grandfather taught me that you can judge other peoples' depth by how they respond to your opinions.. so I just ignore the folks on here that the first thing from their keyboard is "check his comments", "he's a freeper"(whatever that is),etc.

        I feel for your family... my grandmother brought my grandfather home from the hospital for good when they opened him up to take out a gall bladder and found him chuck full of cancer.. He died at home, with family around him three months to the day of the surgery.  There was no living will, just the family to make the decision... as it should be.. family should be able to make that decision without any government influence.

        Maybe you can help me understand the defensiveness of most of the posters here.

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