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View Diary: CA-Init: Support for marriage equality edges up (115 comments)

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  •  Yes, because having Obama on the ballot last time (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larry Bailey, esquimaux, Pender

    sure did help a bunch.  Maybe this time around he'll manage not to issue a statement of support so tepid that the opposition is able to lop off the front half and run the rest in their ads.

    "We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob."-FDR

    by electricgrendel on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 03:09:16 PM PDT

    •  His reelection campaign (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larry Bailey

      will naturally have a really different dynamic than the 2008 election did. But that was crappy, I agree.

      •  It's all black people's fault (0+ / 0-)

        At least that's what you kept reading in the LA Times. Black people who turned out in high numbers to vote for Obama voted for Prop 8. I'm sure there's some statistical truth to that, but next time the NO on 8 folks might want to explain which way to vote more clearly. They did a horrendous job of explaining it in 2008 and bear some of the responsibility for it passing.

    •  I assume you're being sarcasic (0+ / 0-)

      But having Obama on the ballot last time DID "sure help a bunch." Did you note the exit polling by age group?

      Now how many of the young people will show up for the midterms?

      •  Both are true (5+ / 0-)

        Obama on the ballot lifted turnout among democratic voters.

        What electricgrendel is referring to, though, was that Obama's statement, the way it was worded, was used by pro-prop-8 folks to mislead voters into thinking Obama was for prop 8. I got some really disgusting mailers to that effect, the weekend before election.

        I don't personally blame Obama for that, but I do think it makes it damned hard to have our state and national parties have such a schizophrenic message on gay marriage.

        •  I personally blame Obama for it. (3+ / 0-)
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          Spit, Larry Bailey, esquimaux

          He says gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. It's really hard to say that out of one side of your mouth while opposing Prop 8 out of the other side, and it's his fault for taking an official position of bigotry.

          •  Fair enough (1+ / 0-)
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            I guess I appreciate the bind that national politicians are in, even if I don't think it's okay or helpful or particularly principled to give such a muddled message in response.

            I suppose what I really mean is that I don't fault Obama for it any more than I fault most of our other national dems for it. Biden does the same shit, and Gore did it, and Clinton did it, and so on. The problem IMO isn't just Obama or any of them individually, it's that our national party is so afraid of taking a stand on gay marriage that the message winds up making no sense to anybody, and actually sometimes winds up quite harmful in the state level fights.

            •  Yeah. I fault them all. Especially Bill Clinton, (5+ / 0-)
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              Spit, PD41, esquimaux, JesseCW, ricardomath

              who did more damage to us than a Republican president ever has or ever will. Fuck that guy. Don't know why the gays still love him.

              For what it's worth, I'm never going to vote for another politician who doesn't support my full equality under the law.

              •  Then Dick Cheney's your man (1+ / 0-)
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                He openly  supports gay marriage.

                •  And if it were between him and Obama, (0+ / 0-)

                  and neither changed their stances from where they are now, and if in fact Cheney's stance is actually in favor of gay equality (I personally thought his wording was more equivocal than did most), I'd vote for Cheney.

                  I will absolutely not vote for someone who does not support my full equality under the law. If the Democrats don't want me to vote for Cheney in that match-up, they can push Obama to change his stance or they can nominate someone whose position isn't bigotry.

      •  I'm not being sarcastic. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        But Spit explains it better than I do.

        "We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob."-FDR

        by electricgrendel on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 03:23:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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