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View Diary: CA-Init: Support for marriage equality edges up (115 comments)

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  •  We should also take another line of attack (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, sfbob

    here:

    This "right" to marry is not ours or yours or anyone else's to grant or deny.  It is the birthright of citizens here to be treated equally under the law.  

    Who do we think we are saying that we should "give" homosexuals the right to marry?  They HAVE that right, we need to stop stripping them of their rights--we are committing a crime.

    "The revolution will be no rerun, brother. The revolution will be live" Gil Scott-Heron

    by marknspokane on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 03:21:11 PM PDT

    •  Nate Silver had a post about that. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marknspokane

      Here it is. Basically, stop asking if the government should GRANT marriage equality and start asking if it should DENY marriage equality.

      I'm somewhat skeptical, personally. I don't think that framing is really within our control in the context of a political campaign.

      •  We can frame our side of the debate (0+ / 0-)

        for sure--In my numerous arguments with thick-headed people about this issue, I pointedly say, "that right is not yours to give or take".  I'm generally answered with a blank stare followed by a change of subject.  I don't know if it's effective or not, but this is a personal crusade of sorts for me--I feel that I'm defending the Constitution and the American way of life.

        "The revolution will be no rerun, brother. The revolution will be live" Gil Scott-Heron

        by marknspokane on Fri Aug 14, 2009 at 08:47:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Rights (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmo, marknspokane

      I keep saying this, but I'll keep saying it until I'm blue (well, I already am in a manner of speaking anyway...)

      Ben Franklin in the play 1776 (don't know if he said it in real life), "Revolutions are always legal in the first person, it's in the second and third that they're illegal."

      Similarly, very, very, very few people give a flying FIG about YOUR rights, they're only concerned with their own.  

      STOP making this an issue about "rights."  There are no converts here.

      START making this an issue about families.  When we can show the importance of treating our families equally, we will win.  And I don't mean a "getting to know us campaign."  That's VOMIT material.  Poll after poll shows a huge gap between the % of people who know a LGBT person and support of gay marriage.

      I don't want a dinner invitation, I just want to be treated with the human respect and dignity as a human being I deserve.

      What I do mean is SHOWING why it matters to ALL families the importance of treating them equally.

      Tolstoy said it wonderfully, "Happy families are all alike, every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."  We need to do everything we can to move gay families into the happy column.  It would seem to me there's a winning ad buried in that quote!

      What separates us, divides us, and diminishes the human spirit.

      by equern on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 04:35:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree in some respects (0+ / 0-)

        But at some point this has be about respect for human rights and respect for the American ideals of freedom and equality--blind justice, etc.

        I know what you're saying about the family issue.  I do, and I agree completely.  However, you try taking someone who supposedly has some sort of objection to GLBT marriage, and convincing him/her that you deserve to have a family just like everyone else.  It's been my experience, talking to several of these people, that they don't think you are capable of being a family.  

        And concerning our own rights vs the rights of others, I'll say this until I'm blue, again and again.  If we wish to defend our OWN rights, we must defend the rights of others.  It is patriotic and honorable to defend the rights of others, especially those who are unable to defend themselves.  I've had more success appealing to that sentiment in my arguments than in trying to put a human face on GLBT family life.

        To summarize, I completely agree that we must make this a family issue, but I also think that a two pronged attack is appropriate.  Denying marriage to any group of people is an indefensible infringement on that group's civil liberties.

        "The revolution will be no rerun, brother. The revolution will be live" Gil Scott-Heron

        by marknspokane on Fri Aug 14, 2009 at 08:44:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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