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View Diary: Monsanto, Pioneer and Syngenta nailed by Scientific American (67 comments)

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  •  I'm so very tired of double standards. (7+ / 0-)

    We have one set of standards in this country for corporations and a completely different set of standards for individuals.

    From the linked article:

    A final version of the principles will be presented at the ASTA's Executive Committee of the Board of Directors on Sept. 17 and at BIO's Food and Agriculture Section Governing Board Sept. 10 for approval and adoption. Although every company must determine independently the terms under which it will implement these principles, they demonstrate the commitment of the seed and biotechnology industries to public sector research.

    "Although the 'devil is in the details,' we'll have to see how each company implements the principles. However, it was reassuring to see that the seed industry is taking public researchers' concerns seriously and has made tremendous progress in developing consensus on a set of principles in support of public research," said Ken Ostlie, an entomologist at the University of Minnesota.

    Each company gets to set its own standards!  Sounds like the devil will be in the details.

    Individuals are often expected to give up their personal protection and privacy in order to ensure the security of the rest of society.  I can't remember how many times I've heard the phrase "You shouldn't worry if you don't have anything to hide."

    Corporations on the other hand have managed to convince the public that their financial interests take priority over any concerns we individuals might have.

    The comments at the end of that article are a joke to me.  Discussions wouldn't be necessary if these corporations hadn't already done everything in their legal power to prevent independent testing.

    Nobody held a wake for America's manufacturing industry, and now we are supposed to give a fuck about these assholes in the insurance business? - Playon

    by blueocean on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:09:11 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I'm all for more research in this area (0+ / 0-)

      and I think it will go far to destroying much of the mythology around GMOs.

      I just hope activists also won't put up barriers to this research.  Weirdly enough they are also preventing progress in this area.  I hope they will also meet with independent researchers and agree to not interfere with this work.

      Although I'd bet $10 that any research that comes out of this that doesn't show dire harm will be accused of being corporate shillage anyway.

      Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

      by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:16:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm well aware of your position on this subject. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Russgirl

        I've never seen you fail to support GMOs or the companies that bring us those products.

        I don't happen to share your views.

        Nobody held a wake for America's manufacturing industry, and now we are supposed to give a fuck about these assholes in the insurance business? - Playon

        by blueocean on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:19:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not to worry (0+ / 0-)

          there's plenty of academic research in this area too--most people just don't know about it.  

          And very soon people will start to work on this stuff in their basements.  There's a big movement to DIY biology that is supposedly a "democratization" of science.  Like an open source movement on this.  Personally, I'd favor regulation of the work--but apparently everyone wants it all out there.

          Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

          by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:25:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What's wrong with it being "all out there"? (0+ / 0-)

            Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

            by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:26:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You want backyard gardeners (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              marina, Sark Svemes

              creating any kind of modified plants in their backyards?  

              I mean, look what they did with potato blight this year....

              But if there aren't regulations I will probably spend my retirement trying to put THC into mint plants.  I think that will be fun--imagine all those lovely summer lemonades with mint :)  And they grow like crazy.  

              Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

              by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:35:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  WTF are you talking about? Backyard gardeners (0+ / 0-)

                Gene Splicing in the laundry room perhaps? As if that's what's going to happen if we knew how to splice genes and could afford the technology to do it.

                How do you extrapolate that to the potato blight? I feel like I'm talking to Mr. Potato head.

                Monoculture was a leading contributor to the Potato Famine. Monoculture is what Monsanto is creating. Monoculture is what has lead to your end of the gene pool having influence in an intelligent conversation.

                Really? You should be HR'd for intellectual dishonesty. Unfortunately, only half of the equation applies to you.

                Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

                by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:59:52 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh, you haven't heard (0+ / 0-)

                  about the backyard gardeners spreading blight?  It has been all over the news.

                  You Say Tomato, I Say Agricultural Disaster

                  And there is a growing DIY biology movement all over the US.  Seattleand Bostonhave groups that I know about.

                  Go ahead and HR.

                  Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                  by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 11:04:14 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Perhaps you didn't read the whole article - Wal-M (0+ / 0-)

                    Home Depot are more to blame than gardeners. What this has to do with Backyard Gene splicing, IDK. Do you?

                    According to plant pathologists, this killer round of blight began with a widespread infiltration of the disease in tomato starter plants. Large retailers like Home Depot, Kmart, Lowe’s and Wal-Mart bought starter plants from industrial breeding operations in the South and distributed them throughout the Northeast. (Fungal spores, which can travel up to 40 miles, may also have been dispersed in transit.) Once those infected starter plants arrived at the stores, they were purchased and planted, transferring their pathogens like tiny Trojan horses into backyard and community gardens. Perhaps this is why the Northeast was hit so viciously: instead of being spread through large farms, the blight sneaked through lots of little gardens, enabling it to escape the attention of the people who track plant diseases.

                    Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

                    by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 11:12:06 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Perhaps you didn't read the part you quote (0+ / 0-)

                      Perhaps this is why the Northeast was hit so viciously: instead of being spread through large farms, the blight sneaked through lots of little gardens, enabling it to escape the attention of the people who track plant diseases.

                      See--when people do this with insufficient knowledge and tools it can go awry.  

                      I'm not in favor of DIY biology, but it is happening.  And subject to the same outcome.

                      Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                      by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 11:21:15 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe they don't know about it because it's funds (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blueocean, Sark Svemes

            are provided by the seed makers. Like how tobacco companies researched and long knew the dangers of their product.

            Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

            by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:30:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  How are activists creating barriers for research? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueocean

        Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

        by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:24:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sometimes actively blocking it (0+ / 0-)

          with fear and scare tactics and passing local laws that prohibit growing any GMO plants.  

          Sometimes with active destruction of the plants or the labs where the work is done.

          Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

          by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:33:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not mocking you so don't take it personally. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JerichoJ8

            I'm mocking the very idea.

            Cry me a river.  Poor little Monsanto is being thwarted by big mean activists who don't want their plants in their neighborhoods.  

            Don't we salute communities when they are active against companies like Walmart?

            Monsanto has horrible practices and so far has refused to be held accountable to anyone whenever their power will allow it.

            What the hell did they expect?

            I don't support the illegal destruction of the property of a business but I damned sure don't expect a large and powerful corporation to be able to walk on the rights of individual citizens.

            Nobody held a wake for America's manufacturing industry, and now we are supposed to give a fuck about these assholes in the insurance business? - Playon

            by blueocean on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:56:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh, no--academic projects are thwarted (0+ / 0-)

              were you unable to read the links?

              In the most recent case, a research project with 274 apple trees was destroyed at the Federal Research Institute for Horticulture, the Julius Kuehn Institute near Dresden.

              And that lab that Marie Mason was convicted of burning was at Michigan State.  

              Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

              by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:59:36 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Apple trees in Germany? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JerichoJ8

                Probably best to let the Germans handle issues regarding German food production.  Are you in Germany?

                Anyway, is it true that the Germans still don't allow any commercial cultivation of GMO crops?  That strikes me as interesting.  I wonder what their reasoning is for such a thing.

                Nobody held a wake for America's manufacturing industry, and now we are supposed to give a fuck about these assholes in the insurance business? - Playon

                by blueocean on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:23:17 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh, you only want evidence (0+ / 0-)

                  of crop damage in the US?  Ok--I can get that.  

                  But Michigan State in the US, in case you weren't aware of that.

                  Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                  by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:24:54 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Here's one (0+ / 0-)

                  Crop Busters
                  Self-righteous vandals lead a desperate, ill-informed campaign against genetically modified foods.

                  One night last August, a group calling itself Seeds of Resistance used machetes to hack down a half-acre plot of corn at a farm operated by the University of Maine. The crop's offense: It had been genetically engineered to resist herbicides.

                  Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                  by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:32:12 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It is quite interesting how you only respond (0+ / 0-)

                    to one part of a comment.  Did you see my question about Germans refusing to allow GMO cultivation?  

                    You seem to do this quite a bit.  It is the same approach you have taken with others.  

                    I guess I should take the same approach when commenting back to you.  

                    Never mind.  This is usually the approach taken by someone unwilling to admit to any faults on the part of something they support.  I'm done here.

                    Have a great day.

                    Nobody held a wake for America's manufacturing industry, and now we are supposed to give a fuck about these assholes in the insurance business? - Playon

                    by blueocean on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:40:43 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Germany is playing trade games (0+ / 0-)

                      among other things.  But it was funny that you didn't want to deal with German evidence but then wanted to talk about Germany.  

                      How come you aren't talking about the damage to the academic projects?   This is usually the approach taken by someone unwilling to admit to any faults on the part of something they support.

                      Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                      by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:58:22 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  What was the purpose of the crop? n/t (0+ / 0-)

                    Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

                    by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:51:03 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Wait I've got it here? What a joke? They weren't (0+ / 0-)

                      researching toxicity or danger to humans. They were trying to figure out how to make it resistant to herbicides. Why? So they could apply greater doses in the "fewer applications" perhaps.

                      It had been genetically engineered to resist herbicides.

                      This characteristic would reduce the number of herbicide applications needed, saving farmers money and reducing chemical runoff into water supplies.

                      Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

                      by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:54:52 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  I almost forgot to offer you (0+ / 0-)

                  the letter signed by 1600 German scientists protesting the anti-science positions of their government.  

                  But what to Nobel Prize winners know....

                  German scientists wake from their slumber

                  Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                  by mem from somerville on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 06:09:06 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  WEAK sauce. Their blocking industrial research it (0+ / 0-)

            seems not INDEPENDENT research into the safety and efficacy of current GMO crops.

            GMOpundit.com? Really? SEEDSOURCE.com? These are your reliable sources?

            Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

            by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:49:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I doubt you have subscriptions to the journals (0+ / 0-)

              that offer this information. But tell me which ones you have and I'll give you those.  Nature? Science? Nature Biotechnology?  

              Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

              by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 11:32:33 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm responding to the articles you cited. I asked (0+ / 0-)

                you for proof that "activist" have blocked research into the potential dangers of GM crops.

                Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

                by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 12:15:56 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  One was the BBC (0+ / 0-)

                  one was the USDA, and here's a news article on that psycho arsonist: http://www.statenews.com/...  That's from Michigan State.  

                  Maybe it would be easier if you gave me a list of the sources you trust.  

                  Or you can provide links to dispute any of those sources and I'd be happy to look at them.

                  Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                  by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 03:00:06 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Was this Michigan office investigating (0+ / 0-)

                    potential dangers posed to the public by GM crops?

                    It looks like another cog in the industrialized and synthesized food machine.

                    What INDEPENDENT research has been done that looks at the potential dangers posed to the public?

                    How thorough can they be if they're not allowed to actually study the seed?

                    Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

                    by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 04:04:36 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Your sources are HOT AIR.com and GMO shill (0+ / 0-)

                    sites.

                    Teabaggers = Tonsil Sticks - tasteless, pale, brittle, only good for depressing and making you gag

                    by JerichoJ8 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 04:08:41 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Which ones? (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      indubitably

                      I thought you were asking about the ones that activists put barriers to the research--

                      WEAK sauce. Their blocking industrial research it

                      seems not INDEPENDENT research into the safety and efficacy of current GMO crops.

                      But since you can't seem to follow the thread I'll list them again:

                      BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/...

                      the USDA report is provided here: http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/...  I know you don't seem to like this blog, but a lot of people don't like to link to PDFs directly.  You'll have to actually click on that link over there to get the USDA report.

                      And since you didn't like the first one, here's the second one again from Michigan State: http://www.statenews.com/...

                      But if you still don't like that here's Reuters:  http://www.reuters.com/...

                      What exactly are you disputing?  You don't have a very linear thought process.  Are you disputing that the meeting happened, or that activists interfere with research?  

                      Feel free to provide counter evidence to either of those, with actual hyperlinks.

                      Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                      by mem from somerville on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 07:43:12 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

    •  Watch/Share "The Future of Food" DVD (0+ / 0-)

      or google it.

      HUMANS HEALTH depends upon real scientific knowledge to push back against the corporate madness of GREED first - all else last!

      Or... do the corporate thugs NOT eat, drink, breath the same air that the masses do?

      "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" ~ Hipocrates (the father of medicine)

      These Thugs know EXACTLY what they are doing - power and control.

      Never forget that BushCo pushed against organic foods - WHILE EATING ONLY ORGANIC IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND HOME!

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