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  •  I think a lot of those people (4.00)
    regretted casting the vote as soon as they did it.  I'll bet those same voters were voting against Kerry more than they were voting for Bush.  They were surprised when Bush was declared victor.  And a little queesy too.  But they were caught up in the horse race and couldn't let a Dem win, damn the consequences.  The media did a good job winding everyone up.  

    Reject the Red State/Blue State Model
    It's a wedge!

    by lapin on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 11:38:52 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  No, they didn't. (4.00)
       These people truly believe that this is a just war. You can present them with hard copies of evidence about Saddam and WMD's, show them where Powell changed transcripts in the UNSC speech, drag out the Oak Ridge testimony on the aluminum tubes, point out glaring contradiction after glaring contradiction, and they will not believe you.

       It's not even a question of being able to process information. It's a hideous form of brainwashing that says that this President is always right, regardless how bad the decision really is. Hell, I've even brought up to factory workers the steel tariffs that kept the manufactuing sector on a downward spiral, and their reply has literally been, "Oh, but we needed those tariffs."

       It makes you want to beat their head against a wall. Don't beat your head against a wall, you're using it. Use theirs, because they refuse to.

      It's been a time, therefore, of illusion and false hopes, and the longer it continues, the more dangerous it becomes.- John Anderson

      by Anderson Republican on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 02:15:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope, you are both wrong (3.66)
        They are scared (and stupid).

        They don't think it's a just war, but they think Kerry is a pussy and would hand over the country to the terrorists.  I'm referring to the people who changed thier vote from Gore to Bush-those were who lost it for us-therefore they are who matter here.  There were always people who thought it was a just war, but they were always voting for Bush and did so in 2000 as well, so they didn't cause Kerry to lose this time.

        Basically, in a time of war, warrior > warmonger > war protestor.

        The whole SBVFLies thing was to frame Kerry as a war protestor, and it worked.  The "Reporting for Duty" crap at the Democratic Convention was Kerry's attempt to frame himself as a warrior, and it failed.  Bush was always a warmonger.

        Looking back, I now realize we should have nominated a real warrior, namely Wes Clark.  He would have won.  Oh well.

        We all underestimated the number of "9/11 Changed Everything" morons.  They are out there-about two million of them.  These are people that traditionmally vote Democratic in the past but voted for Bush this time out of irrational fear that the terrorists are going to blow up thier local Walmart.  The ONLY counter to them is to nominate a warrior.  The only warrior (of presidential statue) the Democrats have on thier side right now is Wes Clark.  We must nominate him in 2008, or we will lose (assuming status quo in the world, which of course isn't guaranteed).

        •  No and no and no again. (none)
          The ONLY counter to them is to nominate a warrior.  

          No. The only counter to them is to break them of the delusion that this war in Iraq is making them free or safe. Even Clark would agree with me on that. If there's not a change in mindset, then the problem perpetuates itself forever, not just in 2008.

          •  Good Luck (4.00)
            I might have said the only practical way to counter them would be to nominate a warrior.  With the House, the Senate, the Presidency, the Supreme Court, and the Media against us, you have to think tactically.

            Plus, it's hard to counter irrational feelings that are ingrained.  90%+ of the population is abosolutely positive that there is an invisible dude in the sky looking out over us, and he sent his kid down to die for our sins.  Emotional triumphs over logic every time.  Therefore, you must use that emotion, or you lose.

            Before I start a religious flamewar-logically prove to me there is a God.  Ok, that's hard to begin with.  Now prove to me that he's a Christian god and his son was Jesus.  That's even tougher.  Yet the vast majority of the population of this country is positive this is true.  Therefore, you must nominate somebody who agrees with this mindset.

            There are enough people who believe (despite all logic and reason) that Bush will protect them because he is tough, or at least tougher than Kerry was, to allow Bush to win.  The only way to counter this feeling (irrational as it may be) is to nominate somebody they will think is as least as tough if not tougher.

        •  The best counter to them might be.... (none)

          Send us your used sandals and shoes and we'll help out other people.

          by quartzite on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 04:04:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Please please please (none)
          blow up the Wal Mart!

          Reject the Red State/Blue State Model
          It's a wedge!

          by lapin on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 09:59:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Liberalism is a mental disorder (none)
          That's the exact mentality that will ensure a Republican dominance for the next few decades at the least.  The "who lost it for us" mentality of the left.  The problem is, you still think people were tricked into voting for President George Bush.  They voted for him because they aren't as "enlightened" as the lefties, or they voted because the SwiftVets lied.  Toro caca.

          Americans voted for Bush because they are tired of the oral diarrhea from the Democrat Party.  Democrats nominated a candidate for President of the United States that apparently hates America.  He voted down every bill that would strengthen our defense, he voted down every bill that would give better pay to our troops.  Don't forget that 25 million Americans are veterans.  Veterans recognize that Kerry is a traitor.  You may not think he committed treason to America, but he committed treason to the men he served in combat with.  Out of all the men he served with, 2 came out to support him.  The rest opposed him.  

          This is my plea.  America needs a 2 party system.  Otherwise, we end up with a Republican Party that controls the White House, has a 2/3 majority in the House and the Senate, and that is not a good thing.  Make your party a viable party again.  Get in touch with reality, and get in touch with what Americans want.  Otherwise, the Democrat Party is lost.  At this point, I see support for the nomination of Wes Clarke, and Hillary Clinton.  Nominate either one of them and in 2012, Democrats will be fighting to get more votes than the Communist Party.  Well, you got all the Communist Party votes this time around, so that says something.

          Just food for thought.  And yes, it is beef, so that may offend all the tree hugging, don't hurt the poor animals types out there.  If you will excuse me, I'm cooking up some "self slaughtered" venison for dinner tonight, and I gotta get to it.  

          •  Is this a joke? (none)
            Are you making fun of clueless Republicans or are you one of them?  I can't tell.

            "Out of all the men he served with, 2 came out to support him.  The rest opposed him."

            That is backwards.  Of the 15 men who served with Kerry, 13 were at the Democratic Convention supporting him.  One, who is deceased, supported Kerry in a previous Senate campaign.  Only one is a dangerous lunatic who supported Bush.

            Conservatism is a mental disorder.  Some people, as they age, become more conservative.  This is also know as Alzheimers Disease & they are working on a cure.

          •  Another keyboard hero. (none)
            Hey troll, they need soldiers in Iraq--so go be a patriot and volunteer. Of course it won't be a deer you're bravely pitted against, but hey you're a real man aren't you? Go prove it and liberate some Iraqis, stud. Trust me, they're waiting for your wise pleas and superior political knowledge over there. No liberal fag hate-America-firsters over there either. Should be paradise.

            What's funny is how many Republican dipshits I've run across in th last month who rue the demise of the 2 party system, even though Kerry got 49% (at least) against a sitting wartime president. The two-party system is as robust as ever, for better or for worse. What you mean to say is that you know Bush is a horrible president and that the GOP is becoming too fucking crazy even for you--but you still hate Democrats more. And if only we'd drop our principles and be more "representative" of brainwashed assholes like you--we might get your vote. Not likely.

            Rove and company will manipulate dipshits like you into voting against their own interests next time too--because the problem isn't that Dems can't run good, honorable candidates with policies that would be better for you and your children--it's that people like you are so fucked-up that you need a national Christian cowboy movie to fill your lives. That and you hate fags and educated people, as if that wasn't already clear.

            BTW, when was the last time you voted Democrat, troll? If you couldn't do it this year, you'll never do it--so who do you think you're fooling? Do the world a favor and save the bullet for yourself, not the deer. In the meantime, try to educate yourself. We prefer smarter trolls around here.

      •  They still think (none)
        that we're over there to help the Iraqi people and that it will be chaos when we leave.

        I don't think we're there to help the Iraqi people, who come in 3rd to 1) help get Bush (re)elected and 2) make money for corporate friends.

        As for chaos, I believe it will happen anyway, caused by our invasion.

        I'm a member of a minority group: the reality-based community.

        by Unstable Isotope on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 06:30:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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