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View Diary: This is Your GOP on Healthcare Reform (190 comments)

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  •  riddle me a civilized society (3+ / 0-)

    What say you?

    •  civilized (0+ / 0-)

      Is it civilized to dictate another's conscience, to steal from another under the guise of government, to blatantly toss aside the rule of law, to ignore the formalized legal agreement among the societies composing the US?

      •  The riddler in stealing from von mises and hayek (4+ / 0-)

        "has a splendid analytical mind and an admirable passion for liberty; but as a student of human nature he is worse than null and as a debater he is of Hyde Park standard."

        I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. -- Pogo

        by annieli on Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 03:38:36 PM PDT

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      •  in order to form a more perfect union (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        valadon, Matt Z, CA Berkeley WV, annieli

        work in progress, friend.

        •  trite reply (0+ / 0-)

          Your response only introduces vagueness and employs a subtle form of sophistry in that you allow "a more perfect union" to be broad in nature, rather than limited and defined under the conditions of the consitution. BTW, you should that a union differs from a consolidation which was what was originally considered at the federal convention, but eventually a federal, not national government was created that was to be employed to benefit the states. This can be seen from the powers both granted, and not granted, along with the fact that it says UNITED STATES, not ONE NATION. I suggest you do research that would enable you to understaned the US constitution through a historical context.

      •  is it civilized to lie (6+ / 0-)

        to the populace for one's own political agenda under the guise of liberty? Who is stealing from whom?

        Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

        by valadon on Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 03:43:33 PM PDT

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        •  red herring alert (0+ / 0-)

          You appear to want to raise the sins of someone, in order to take a different track than responding to my questions. Has someone done wrong? Most have, my questions are still valid regardless on any infractions, even were I the one commtting them.

          •  Not true (4+ / 0-)

            You are insisting that some wrong is being done to you or others under the guise of government, when it could equally (though not in an equivalent sense), be said that those in opposition to healthcare reform are lying to suit their own political agenda under the guise of liberty....

            I was not raising any specific "sins" (nor for that matter do I believe in a concept of sin).

            Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

            by valadon on Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 04:01:46 PM PDT

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            •  Still avoiding (0+ / 0-)

              the fundamental points I raised, for if there is no power under the US constitution to legislate concerning heatlth care in order to provide it, then, YES, under the 9th and 10th amendments my rights would be violated. Also, by labeling liberty a "political agenda" you cheapen the argument, which is what is my right to liberty. The answer would be the freedom to decide my own morality as long as I don't pick your pocket or break your leg. Although I will grant that a community sufficiently small enough to hew closer to a true democracy may enacts laws that one would consider taking away from one's liberty, but in such a case one is always free to move.

              •  what in the US Constitution (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Matt Z, Wendy Slammo, CA Berkeley WV

                disallows legislation for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? What prevents the Congress from implementing healthcare reform when it should be noted that they have legislated for Veteran's health, medicare, Social Security and the like? It seems to me if your argument were to have any merit that the Supreme Court would have found all these measures unconstitutional.

                I'm not insulting anyone's liberty...it belongs to every human being, let alone to you. If you truly understood my point you'd see that i was talking about those who were making an insincere political argument while disingenuously calling on liberty as their rationale.

                Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

                by valadon on Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 04:26:21 PM PDT

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          •  Fuck you and your questions, troll (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Matt Z, CA Berkeley WV, annieli

            By your logic, there should be no Medicare or Fire Department, of Police Department.

            "To provide for the general welfare..."

            You forget that one, asshole?

            Fuck you.

            We need two lists: those we will work to elect and those we will defeat. If you're not progressive, you're not a Democrat.

            by moosely2006 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 04:21:55 PM PDT

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