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View Diary: How Shall You Die? Like Ted Kennedy? Or Lee Atwater? (51 comments)

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  •  Hmmm (1+ / 0-)
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    You can recite unflattering facts about the dead and still be mean spirited.

    The wingers coming on here bringing up Chappaquiddick, Kennedy's early ethical problems, womanizing, etc, may be factually correct, but it's still mean-spirited. You could also say those facts "condemn" Ted Kennedy, to use your words, but of course there is more to the story than those facts.

    I'm just of the belief you don't have to tear down one person in order to praise another.  It's certainly  not a defense of Atwater, who I agree had serious issues, just my personal feelings on the subject.

    I am that gadfly which God has attached to the state, and all day long and in all places...arousing and persuading and reproaching you.-Socrates

    by The Navigator on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 09:22:32 PM PDT

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    •  And you don't have to tear down a fine diary (5+ / 0-)

      to make a point.

      "All war is stupid" - JFK

      by jorogo on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 09:30:29 PM PDT

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    •  Ted was hardly perfect (7+ / 0-)

      And I'd never claim that he was.  The difference is that the good Kennedy did in his life helped redeem the mistakes he made and the flaws he had.  In contrast, Atwater didn't have any redeeming qualities or accomplishments.

      You can point to a huge number of Kennedy's legislative achievements and honestly say they made people's lives better.  Nothing similar can be said of Atwater.  Suddenly, facing death, he got cold feet and tried to unburden himself, and he apparently thought folks should think better of him for it.  Sorry, but after you've made your living on bigotry, you don't get off that easily.

      •  Well, yeah (1+ / 0-)
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        I agree with everything you said.   To sum up:

        Kennedy: Good
        Atwater: Bad

        Now, don't we all feel better?

        My point is, again, bringing attention to the misery of Atwaters life doesn't really have anything to do with Ted Kennedy. It's  not necessary to rehash the pitiful life of a miserable man to appreciate Ted's amazing life.

        Look, you either get that, or you don't.

        I am that gadfly which God has attached to the state, and all day long and in all places...arousing and persuading and reproaching you.-Socrates

        by The Navigator on Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 09:35:40 PM PDT

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        •  What you seem to be missing (3+ / 0-)
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          LynneK, Oh Mary Oh, Go Kid Hugo

          is that in the end Atwater admitted that he had taken the wrong path in his life. He would not have wrote what he did on his death bed if he didn't want people to learn from his mistakes, but it's impossible to learn from him if we ignore what he freely acknowledged that he did wrong.

          In his last days Atwater finally did right, don't take that away from him.

          We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
          -6.63, -6.97

          by amRadioHed on Fri Aug 28, 2009 at 01:05:12 AM PDT

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        •  Compare and Contrast (8+ / 0-)

          Speaking of things you either get or you don't, I think you may have missed the point of the diary, which was to compare the way Kennedy's life shaped the way his death is viewed to the way Atwater's life shaped the way his death was viewed.

          And, no, Atwater's life doesn't have anything to do with Ted Kennedy, unless you're trying to get people to draw a lesson from the contrast between the lives these two politically influential men led.  On the other hand, if you think comparisons can be instructive, then presenting these two very different figures in one diary can be useful.

          But you either get that or you don't.

        •  It's called comparison and contrast..... (0+ / 0-)

 couldn't be are more common device. And he isn't saying anything bad about Lee paraphrase President Truman he is just telling the truth about Lee Atwater and you THINK he is bad.

          Tonight I'm going to party like it's 1929.

          by Bensdad on Fri Aug 28, 2009 at 08:56:33 PM PDT

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    •  It's customary not to criticize a person in the (1+ / 0-)
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      immediate aftermath of their death. This is at least in part because there may be people around who are mourning that death -- certainly many people are mourning Ted Kennedy.

      But Lee Atwater has been dead for quite a while. I don't think we should give up being able to honestly evaluate any person after their death. You just give it a little while, out of respect for those who care about them.

      That's enough.

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