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View Diary: Carter: Palestinian Leaders "Seriously Considering" One-State Solution (301 comments)

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  •  it presupposes (9+ / 0-)

    that people are basically good. Against any and all evidence to the contrary, I believe that they are.

    Thank you, Pluto.

    •  Reality: just look at the history of pogroms (4+ / 0-)

      forced conversions, expulsions from one country after another, ghettos, blood libels, death camps and gas chambers.

      Sure, there certainly are a lot of "basically good" people in this world, but Jews have learned from their own personal history that not everyone is good.  

      There is sufficient evidence that having one's own little country, and attempting to control one's own destiny for a change, is vitally important.  Israel will never willingly give this up, despite anyone's utopian fantasies.

      Both Israelis and Palestinians are entitled to independence -- hence, 2 states.

      This one-state fantasy is just pie-in-the-sky and will never be achieved without massive bloodshed.

      Consider adopting a homeless pet at PAWS.org (Progressive Animal Welfare Society)

      by hikerbiker on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 02:26:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i accept (0+ / 0-)

        that if any people can conclude, based on their own historical experience, that human beings are not basically good, it is the Jewish people. And I appreciate the determination of the people of Israel to not permit themselves to be so abused again.

        So I'm interested in your thoughts on these observations from the diary:

        Any domestic "existential threat" is obviated by the Palestinian resolve to, if a "civil rights struggle" is in some area deemed necessary, conduct such a struggle via the nonviolent "examples [of] Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr. and Nelson Mandela." Any existential threat from abroad evaporates, as no foreign power would be motivated to attack, invade, or attempt to obliterate a state in which Israelis and Palestinians are as one.  

        To put it in terms even more blunt and stark, a Jewish friend of mine has for years argued that the greatest security against the detonation in Israel of an atomic weapon, arriving either by missile or suitcase, is an Israel transformed into a single state in which Jews and Palestinians live as one.

        •  As I wrote before, I think it's pie in the sky. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueness, canadian gal

          Any existential threat from abroad evaporates

          cannot be guaranteed.

          And the so-called "demographic threat" is also very real.  

          Of course there would not be the same drive to attack from outside the state when there are equal rights and the state is on it's way to becoming majority Palestinian -- and we know that demographics would eventually and inevitably render this "bi-national state" majority Palestinian.

          I'm not claiming that all Palestinians seek the destruction of Israel.  But the Israelis will never willingly take a chance on the ones who might. And they will eventually have to make moves to preserve their majority status (ie: give up territory), as they wish to retain a semblance of democracy.

          In an ideal world, a binational state sounds ideal, but it will never be acceptable to the Israelis.

          So why not pursue a path toward peace which has the potential to be acceptable to both sides:  the two-state solution?

          Consider adopting a homeless pet at PAWS.org (Progressive Animal Welfare Society)

          by hikerbiker on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 04:49:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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