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View Diary: Carter: Palestinian Leaders "Seriously Considering" One-State Solution (301 comments)

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  •  The symbolism alone (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    capelza

    ...would be a massive kick-in-the-balls to the extremists on both sides of the divide, telling them in the starkest of terms that they're no longer in charge of the discussion.

    The only good freeper is the one found at the bottom of an ocean....

    by Liberal Panzer on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 03:21:43 AM PDT

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    •  I don't know (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueness, Alec82, hikerbiker

      You think most of the Jewish community want's to restore constant animal sacrifice?

      Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

      by bythesea on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 03:32:51 AM PDT

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      •  er "wants" not "want's" n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueness

        Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

        by bythesea on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 03:35:30 AM PDT

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        •  Silly bythesea-wabbit; (0+ / 0-)

          animal-sacrifice tricks are for childish fundagelical Xianist knuckledraggers who beat black cats with bible tracts before nailing their disemboweled carcasses to mail-box posts in rural Nebraska on Halloween night.  I'm talking about the pure symbolism of putting those two centers of worship---the two extreme outliers of a bell curve, you might say---right next door to each other.  The pulse of radical-right heads exploding en masse should be able to show up on a Richter scale---even from here!

          The only good freeper is the one found at the bottom of an ocean....

          by Liberal Panzer on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 05:54:55 AM PDT

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          •  True enough (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Liberal Panzer, hikerbiker

            and believe it or not that very idea has been floated before since the Dome of the rock isn't going anywhere.  But understand such a restored temple would not be a like a UU Church.  That's one of the reasons many Jewish people never want one rebuilt.

            Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

            by bythesea on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 12:08:33 PM PDT

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            •  An open-air monument (0+ / 0-)

              to what Judaism and its long history is all about could be the perfect resolution; a place where anyone can freely enter and explore what the old gargantuan structure was like.  It would be like rebuilding the Parthenon, or the Temple of Zeus.  A titan of a building, with a thousand places in which a group of people could just sit and contemplate whatever it is that needs contemplating.  A massive repository for all information related to Judaism---and right across the way, a similar spot that archives all things of Islam.  Pure compare-and-contrast research and historical documentation for two great religious concepts---in one place.

              Just the mere thought would turn any "phud" candidate into a Pavlovian drooling machine....

              The only good freeper is the one found at the bottom of an ocean....

              by Liberal Panzer on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 01:41:44 PM PDT

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              •  Jews aren't even supposed to go up to the Temple (6+ / 0-)

                Mount until the day the Messiah comes and the Temple is rebuilt (then and only then).

                So, among other problems with this vision, it would be incredibly sacrilegious to even attempt to build any Jewish structure on the Mount.

                Many excellent centers for Jewish learning already exist in Jerusalem.

                That said, it is an appealing thought to one day see a coordinated effort to highlight the history of all 3 relevant religions in Jerusalem.

                Consider adopting a homeless pet at PAWS.org (Progressive Animal Welfare Society)

                by hikerbiker on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 02:17:24 PM PDT

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                •  They're not supposed to break God's Commandments, (0+ / 0-)

                  ...either, but they've not shown any remorse for coveting their neighbor's property, for lying and stealing and killing to obtain that property, or for abdicating the holiness of their own Sabbath in the name of unjustified aggressive war.

                  The only good freeper is the one found at the bottom of an ocean....

                  by Liberal Panzer on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 06:40:00 PM PDT

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                  •  wow. just wow. n/t (10+ / 0-)

                    Consider adopting a homeless pet at PAWS.org (Progressive Animal Welfare Society)

                    by hikerbiker on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 07:33:45 PM PDT

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                  •  Aside from your sweeping (10+ / 0-)

                    overgeneralizations, please show me one group of people somewhere on this planet who hasn't broken the commandments of the god(s) or goddesses(es) they worship.

                    •  I give you a lot of credit (4+ / 0-)

                      for having the composure and patience to respond to that.

                      Consider adopting a homeless pet at PAWS.org (Progressive Animal Welfare Society)

                      by hikerbiker on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 09:25:53 PM PDT

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                      •  Thanks, but you did too, you know! (4+ / 0-)
                        •  No. My jaw dropped (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          blueness, bythesea, soysauce

                          and I was speechless.

                          Consider adopting a homeless pet at PAWS.org (Progressive Animal Welfare Society)

                          by hikerbiker on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 10:27:22 PM PDT

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                          •  In reply to "all of the above", (0+ / 0-)

                            ...the hypocrisy of defending the selective application of a religious theology is comical to the extreme.

                            "Not supposed to?" is surely not the best that can be offered in an era where a good portion of the Israeli population no longer wishes to follow the religious ideology of their forebears, if for no other reason than the well-oiled gears of that religion's hypocrisy are finally beginning to clatter, and to clank, and to squeal.

                            It is not the "revealed text" of a faith that determines the word of one's deity, because such has been mangled, twisted, shredded and re-assembled countless times by those who are bound by the covenant of that word for their own material ends.  It embraces the endless potential of revisionist thinking: "I shall not, except for when I decide that 'not' is non-applicable."  Such is the madness of the tabernacle tent---the original "smoke-filled back room"; the ancestor of countless Tammany Halls, American Enterprise Institutes, health insurance boardrooms, and all the rest of the avaricious, greedy putrefactiveness---that gave rise to and emboldened the Pharisees of old.

                            It is, instead, nothing more than the simple words of the deity---whether that deity be male, female, both, neither, all of the above, or none of the above---and the final epiphany of the individual to understand that the only path to validation for one of those six options is the realization that the select option can only be as valid as the other five. THAT is the "Messiah" that the population of Jerusalem must wrap its disparate, nationalistic mindsets around---Israeli and Palestinian alike, in equal measure---and THEN the Jewish people can re-ascend the Temple Mount to rebuild.

                            It is, likewise, that same concept of "Messiah" that will bring about an internalized, self-inflicted Armageddon upon the holier-than-thou fundamentalists, ultra-conservative evangelicals, and other assorted hate-mongering Christianists---that will make Masada look like a Sunday picnic.  Think "Jim Jones' Jungle Kool-Aid" to the nth degree here....

                            The only good freeper is the one found at the bottom of an ocean....

                            by Liberal Panzer on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 02:42:58 AM PDT

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                          •  gross (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            hikerbiker

                            the well-oiled gears of that religion's hypocrisy are finally beginning to clatter,

                            there is lots of offense in your post, this is just the tip of the iceberg. i'm hr'ing you because you've crossed my line.

                            sorry, i'm not a huge fan of hr's but basic decency will not allow me to let this insult pass.

                          •  ok (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            blueness, Liberal Panzer, hikerbiker

                            i removed it because as a secular person i think there is plenty of opportunity to find hypocrisy when one encounters the practitioners of all religion. but clearly attacking a religion itself instead of those who interpret it or practice it is below the belt.

                            i don't understand that much about the religion but i am not willing to believe it has survived all these years unless the basic tenants are grounded in goodness. that is just common sense whether one is religious oneself or not. so no i do not think Judaism itself is showing any sign of hypocrisy just because a wave of current practitioners are involved in this hideous occupation. the religion is more longlasting than current political trends.

                          •  I'm reccing you (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            zannie

                            ...for two reasons.  First (and foremost), you withdrew an HR that was based on your being personally offended by my comments.  "Hiding" is for something that's excessive across the board, not just for what indignation a few such as yourself might sense.  So that's a good thing.

                            Secondly, you raise a valid point that needs to be expanded upon.  The great fault in all religions---the "well-oiled machine finally beginning to clatter and clank"---is that the religious structures in society, whether Christian, Judaic, Islamic, Shintoist, Buddhist, Confucian, Wiccan, Rastafarian, or what have you---have all become demeaningly subservient to those who allege themselves to be nothing more that practitioners and adherents to their particular faith-regimens.  The individual who will not stand up and storm out---in loudly-expressed, righteous indignation---in the midst of a sermon of hatred and intolerance is no less guilty of that hatred and intolerance than the synaptically-challenged fool who spouts forth that hatred and intolerance from the pulpit.

                            It is not enough; it has never been enough, and it will never be enough, to simply say to one's self that "I disagree."  That is the path of the Enabler, and the path of the Coward.  Those who fail to openly reject the evil, for whatever reason, deserve nothing else than to be lumped in with that evil, associated with that evil, and declared a sycophantic celebrant of that evil.

                            As such, the tactic of attacking those who either wrongfully interpret and apply the tenets of any dogma, or those who by their own actions/inactions defend that wrongful interpretation and application, necessitates by philosophical default the waging of a general offensive upon the overall religion itself.

                            It is called "War"---and it is supposed to be ugly, or as you stated above: "gross".  Otherwise, we'd be up to our eyeballs in it 24/7/365.

                            We would all be "teabaggers"....

                            The only good freeper is the one found at the bottom of an ocean....

                            by Liberal Panzer on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 11:25:14 AM PDT

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      •  Not to mention that the Christian end-timers... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        capelza, Alec82

        ...would go absolutely bonkers.  You think they're bad now, just build the Third Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and see how crazy they go.  It'll be like stirring up a really loud, really obnoxious anthill.

        Call Congress and demand 2 Senators, 1 VOTING Rep, and full home rule for DC citizens. Anything less is un-American.

        by mistersite on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 05:52:50 AM PDT

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