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View Diary: Carter: Palestinian Leaders "Seriously Considering" One-State Solution (301 comments)

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  •  No one is asking... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    word is bond, Captain C, canadian gal

    ...to abandon the refugees.  Israel's proposals at Camp David comprehensively dealt with them.

    As part of a peace agreement, they can migrate to the newly formed country of "Palestine."  Arab states, who bear primary responsibility for their plight, can also give them citizenship rather than have them languish in camps.  Sort of like what we do with refugees here in the U.S.

    If missiles were falling where my two daughters sleep, I would do everything in order to stop that. -- President Barack Obama

    by JPhurst on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 09:48:51 AM PDT

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    •  There will certainly be some refugees (5+ / 0-)

      absorbed by Arab countries like Jordan and Syria.  The issue is Lebanon.  The sectarian balance of the state will never allow Palestinians to be accommodated there.  I am not opposed to refugees  being resettled in a Palestinian state, but what hope is there of that possibility with the expansion of the occupation and the settlements.  I will ask you to please work hard for a negotiated settlement for two states.  Without success now with Obama's efforts, the struggle will be one for equal rights.  I don't think your vision of the state of Israel will be able to survive that kind of struggle.  

      It is becoming the only way for Palestinians to survive as a people.  We will not go away or forget.

      "This is not a boycott of Israelis. It's a boycott of pretending that everything is normal in Israel" Naomi Klein http://www.bdsmovement.net/

      by soysauce on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 10:30:50 AM PDT

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      •  Hold on a second.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        canadian gal

        The issue is Lebanon.  The sectarian balance of the state will never allow Palestinians to be accommodated there.

        Presumably then, you do not object to Israel's concerns about its own demographics.  Or is it only Arab states that are allowed to take such concerns into account.

        If missiles were falling where my two daughters sleep, I would do everything in order to stop that. -- President Barack Obama

        by JPhurst on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 01:37:53 PM PDT

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        •  I can let soysauce speak for herself, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aunt Martha, soysauce

          but I'm pretty sure she'll agree with what I have to say.

          Of course, as Palestinians, we object to the fact that Palestinians, born in Lebanon and knowing only Lebanon their entire lives, are prevented from being equal citizens like everyone else around them.

          The issue in Lebanon is that Palestinians there are mostly Sunni, with a Christian (mostly non-Maronite) minority. Large swathes of the Lebanese political leaderships would be adamantly opposed to that. soysauce is simply acknowledging that reality.

          She also acknowledges that when a Palestinian state is created, most of those refugees will end up there. What she (and virtually every Paletinian) is worried about is the fact that the settlements are taking more and more of that available land, so that in the end there will be no room for any refugees in Palestine.

    •  this comment (5+ / 0-)

      As part of a peace agreement, they can migrate to the newly formed country of "Palestine."  Arab states, who bear primary responsibility for their plight, can also give them citizenship rather than have them languish in camps.  

      illustrates very clearly the problem. Israel must recognize its responsibility as the overwhelming cause of the creation of the Palestinian refugee crisis. This does not mean that Arab states have dealt with the refugee issue in a constructive way; it does mean that the reason there is such a crisis is because Israel never allowed those refugees to return home. Anyone concerned about the plight of refugees today, whether in Darfur or Iraqi refugees in Syria and Lebanon, work toward creating the conditions which guarantees their right to return in peace and security to their homes. Since Israel did not allow this, it bears primary responsibility.

      Sort of like what we do with refugees here in the U.S.

      This reveals to me that you don't know much about US refugee policy either. It is very difficult, and often takes years, for those refugees who actually are admitted into the US to become citizens. It's a long, difficult process, and many refugees face deportation if they do not meet a stringent set of requirements.

      •  Wrong.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Karmafish

        ...because the refugee problem was created by Arab states that rejected partition and declared war on the fledgling Jewish state.  As well as those in Palestine who chose to side with the Arabs in their failed war.

        Nothing in international law requires do overs.

        If missiles were falling where my two daughters sleep, I would do everything in order to stop that. -- President Barack Obama

        by JPhurst on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 01:39:13 PM PDT

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        •  you're certainly (6+ / 0-)

          not basing your opinion (that's all it is) on anything remotely associated with international law. Your vision is more along the lines of "might makes right." Unless you believe that the 750,000 Palestinian civilians forced to flee their homes were all combatants, they in fact do have rights under international law (since you reference it) to return. Israel is responsible, and always will be, for not allowing the repatriation of Palestinians to their homes (UN resolution 194, Article 11 calls for the right of return).

          But since you erroneously referenced int'l law:

          The sources of the right of return in the Fourth Geneva Convention are Article 4, Article 6(4) and Article 158(3). Article 4 defines protected persons who are covered by the Convention. The definition of protected persons covers all habitual residents of a territory who may have become temporarily displaced from their place of origin during conflict (for whatever reason), and provision for their repatriation has been made in two separate articles of the Convention. The first repatriation provision appears in Article 6(4), which covers the end dates of the applicability of the Convention.  Specifically, Article 6(4) states that the Convention shall remain in effect, even after the cessation of hostilities, for those protected persons in need of repatriation. The second repatriation provision appears in Article 158, which covers the procedures whereby a state may "denounce" the Convention.  Specifically, Article 158(3) states that a denunciation may not take effect until after the repatriation of protected persons has occurred.

          •  So maybe I'll take you seriously... (0+ / 0-)

            ...when you start clamoring that all the Germans "temporarily displaced" from Danzig, er...Gdansk to "return" to their homes.

            Palestinian "refugees" may "return" to Palestine when a peace agreement is concluded.  They may not return to Israel unless the Israeli government so chooses to allow them to return.

            If missiles were falling where my two daughters sleep, I would do everything in order to stop that. -- President Barack Obama

            by JPhurst on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 07:12:00 AM PDT

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            •  do you think (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Aunt Martha, unspeakable

              I care if you take me seriously or not? I certainly don't take a thing you say seriously. You've never contributed any remotely worthwhile comment.

              You can't respond substantively when proven wrong. All you can do is attempt to distract. Typical and transparent...

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