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View Diary: Carter: Palestinian Leaders "Seriously Considering" One-State Solution (301 comments)

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  •  hhmmm.... (0+ / 0-)

    im not sure i see any plan being 'the only choice' when this is not what either party wants. just like netanyahu doesn't represent the majorities wishes, neither does a palestinian leadership that sees this as the only available choice moving forward.

    moreover - your point that, 'israelis will have to accept...' surely you know this is both unlikely and unreasonable ( just like the jordanian suggestion). the only way there will be peace is if all affected parties agree on any such plan.

    for me personally i believe neither palestinians or israelis will be wholly satisfied with the final terms of a peace plan (however will accept the basic tenets) but isn't that true of any negotiation?

    "Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

    by canadian gal on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 01:06:59 PM PDT

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    •  The reason (5+ / 0-)

      the Jordanian "option" is not an option is because 1) Jordan does not want the West Bank, 2) Israel does want it, and 3) The settlements are not going to be dismantled. Even if Israel unilaterally disengages from most parts of the West Bank, as long as no Palestinian state is recognized by the international community, Israel has not solved its fundamental problem (see Gaza).

      moreover - your point that, 'israelis will have to accept...' surely you know this is both unlikely and unreasonable

      It is not unreasonable to demand equal rights. Unlikely? Certainly at the moment it is. But in the long term, and again, this is only if the two state solution is declared officially dead by the Palestinian leadership, Israel can become a pariah state (South Africa style) until its people understand that they cannot govern over a majority and deny them equal rights indefinitely.

      Obviously this is all hypothetical. But it's about as realistic at this point as a two state solution. I don't believe the conventional two state solution is any longer a possibility.

      •  nathan... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Karmafish, hikerbiker

        as i said below - last comment because i am going to eat. it is not unreasonable to demand equal rights. and no - i dont believe the majority of israelis want the west bank.

        but i dont think that's what we were talking about - we were talking about whether or not a pie-in-the-sky idea that neither the palestinians or israelis want.

        and i am saddened that you no longer believe in a two-state solution - i do. and i think its never been closer than it is right now. of course many things need to happen first - but i remain optimistic.

        "Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

        by canadian gal on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 01:48:40 PM PDT

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        •  What exactly makes it seem closer to you? (4+ / 0-)

          I mean this seriously; I would very much like to know.  To me it seems further and further away, and what seems closer and closer is one state of Israel, with the question of what kind of state it is going to be up for grabs.

        •  don't be (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueness, Aunt Martha, unspeakable

          saddened. I said that I don't believe that the conventional outlines of the two state solution are any longer possible, and I've said that before.

          I wasn't making a comment about whether the majority of Israelis want or don't want the West Bank. The "facts" are that their state does want it (its resources in particular). Under what possible scenario would Israel return all of the West Bank? Or allow a real Palestinian state to emerge (with full sovereignty over land, air and sea?).

          What I find very interesting is the desire among so many people to have it every way they want--insisting on the rights of settlers to live on Palestinian land, or the necessity of Palestinians to absorb them, or insisting on Israeli sovereignty over Jerusalem, or insisting on the right of Israel to control Palestinian borders, etc etc--and then being surprised when Palestinians say that no, these things you see as charitable offers are not what the dictionary describes as sovereignty.

          I do not think that Israel's political class accepts the idea that Palestinians are entitled to real sovereignty. And more importantly, Israel's state policies reflect this. So why be disappointed when people who do care about Palestinian rights recognize this and suggest that the two-state solution has always been a formula for Palestinian capitulation, and the denial of their sovereignty? All Oslo did was produce an armed, corrupt Palestinian police force willing to do much of the IDF's dirty work. So why should we embrace more of these disingenuous schemes?

          •  let me... (0+ / 0-)

            change the framing a bit. you comment has many fair points. and i agree there has been so much history and manipulation of various opportunities in the past.

            but let me ask you something, what - to you, would be a viable path forward that both parties would accept?

            "Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

            by canadian gal on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 05:24:39 PM PDT

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