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View Diary: Wanted: A Social History of Daily Kos (651 comments)

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  •  I had been wondering (4.00)
    if there were any Kerry supporters on the site in those days.  One of the accusations that has been made since the election is that we were all a bunch of fools to support Kerry.  But if virtually no one supported Kerry until his nomination was almost a sure thing, then this accusation makes no sense, except to attack the people who tried to become enthusiastic about Kerry after his nomination.
    •  Yep n/t (none)

      I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

      by Armando on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 11:22:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sort of (none)
      After Dean and Clark were toast, most of their supporters started breaking for Kerry or Edwards.  I think more broke for Edwards than Kerry.  

      Until Kerry won the Iowa and New Hampshire primaries, you could go weeks on Daily Kos without hearing a good thing said about him.  

      Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

      by johnny rotten on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 12:38:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  As I recall (none)
        outside of Lieberman (who was generally reviled by most dKossers -- GOTV being the exception who stood his ground very firmly and admirably IMHO)Kerry was at the bottom of the pile for most folks around here.  Even Kucinich had more sympathy.  The Anti-Sharpton feeling was also incredibly strong, but I think that had less to do with primary politics and more to do with something else altogether, but that's something for another thread.  At a much later time.

        In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

        by a gilas girl on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 12:44:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  NO! Not GOTV, GoVote (none)
          GoVote can be completely unreasonable and petty, and it was throwing me for a loop whenever I got a response from GOTV that seemed so measured and reasonable and devoid of any indication that a day or two earlier he was attacking me for not liking Joe Lieberman as much as he thought I should.

          Then I realized GOTV was somebody different.  (Also sort of a neighbor; a fellow uburban Detroiter.)

          •  Right GOVOTE (none)
            GOTV was and is cool.

            I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

            by Armando on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 01:10:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Probably... (none)
              ...going to meet him fairly soon.  I'm talking with Emptywheel about planning a get together for the Michigan Kosmopolitans.  She's probably going to set it up in Ann Arbor, so it's easier for any folks from the Lansing area to come down for it.  

              Yeah, his online persona is great.  I'm expecting to like him in-person just as much.  

              Of course anyone who doesn't like me on line will probably dislike me just as much in person, but hey, I'm still not as much a (self-admitted) asshole as you and Raybin.  ;)

              •  My spies (none)
                told me about this little thread of a conversation.  (Not sure if you will ever see this, DH, but what the heck.)

                Yes, please rest assured that I am not now nor have I ever been a supporter of Joseph Lieberman for president.  Though I did admire the ridcule potential of Joementum, the word always struck me as sound more like a antacid or denture cleanser.  Nor am I the poster GoVote, with whom I have had my own run-ins.  

                Finally, I trust that you and emptywheel will keep me posted on the meeting.  She has my email address, and I have hers, so keeping up2date (I'm not him/her either) on this shouldn't be difficult.  

                I did, for a while post as Mike in Ann Arbor, but dropped that after I left Washtenaw to work for Dean and local Dems in Oakland County.

                Finally, I am not as much of an asshole as Armando, either (though I am more cynical on line than I am in person).

                Looking forward to meeting the Michigan Kosa Nostrans, I remain,

                GOTV


                 

                Which is worse: becoming "unviable," or remaining silent on things that matter? ~~Dean

                by GOTV on Mon Dec 06, 2004 at 03:49:22 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Ann Arbor Kospersons (none)
                Count me in, especially if it's here in Ann Arbor. If you want a place to coordinate, I've created a dKosopedia page for that purpose.
            •  Thankyouverymuch (none)
              (Only kidding about the asshole comment to DH, btw.)

              Which is worse: becoming "unviable," or remaining silent on things that matter? ~~Dean

              by GOTV on Mon Dec 06, 2004 at 03:53:01 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Ohmygod, you're right (none)
            it was GOVOTE.  Sorry.

            Apologies to GOTV.  I think I've been doing that to you in my  mind for a long time.

            oops.

            In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

            by a gilas girl on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 03:06:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  A minor thing (none)
          GoVote was the Lieberman supporter.

          ... Do you mean there were two?

        •  Not so admirably (none)
          IMO.

          I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

          by Armando on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 01:09:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  He got very testy at the end (none)
            but you have to admit it was after long months of tolerating really heavy duty anti-Lieberman sentiment, not all of it expressed reasonably (even though I'll be the first to admit that anti-Lieberman sentiment is reasonable).

            He tolerated a lot for a long time and kept coming here.

            In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

            by a gilas girl on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 03:10:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Should probably not comment (none)
          but I'm inferring from your comment that the lack of Sharpton love may be racist in nature?

          It's always possible, but there are legitimate reasons to not like the man. And for me, although his outsider status conferred on him the freedom to be both outspoken and straightspoken during the debates (and I did appreciate him for that, and for his speech at the DNC), he's not someone I trust either as a politician or a religious leader. I'm a  New Yorker though (and for all I know, you are too) and have had more exposure to him over the decades than some, perhaps.

          Smart man, no question. Gifted orator, oh yes. But...

          •  but what? (none)
            i'm a new yorker too and i maintain that a lot of the problems people have w/ sharpton have to do with his blackness. if you can't forgive him for tawana, fine, i can accept that, but if it's issues beyond that, i'd be interested in hearing them.

            p.s. he was a guest host on air america the other day and i found him to be super sharp, funny and naturally gifted at framing dem policy in a way that is easy for the masses to understand and connect with.

            "Some were afraid, some just wanted a bit o' his power, 'cause he was gettin' himself power all right. Dark days Harry." --The Sorcerer's Stone

            by JaneKnowles on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 07:13:22 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I Love Sharpton (none)
              But he's made mistakes too.

              I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

              by Armando on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 07:25:21 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  the perm doesn't count (none)
                and i was debating myself today on whether or not tawana trumps lying about your military service and your drug use history. unfortunately, i wanted to give it to al but i couldn't. but still, what else?

                "Some were afraid, some just wanted a bit o' his power, 'cause he was gettin' himself power all right. Dark days Harry." --The Sorcerer's Stone

                by JaneKnowles on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 07:52:13 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Over Bush? (none)
                  Heh.  Al has had some antics in his past.  But he's been good for the past oh 6, 7 years?

                  He contirbutes no question.  But he's not a serious candidate for major office - his image is too unshakeable.

                  I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

                  by Armando on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 08:01:24 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  yes, over bush (none)
                    and i guess that's my point. his trangressions are far less forgiveable because he's not only black, but fairly flamboyent. he's black and he's proud! so while americans will forgive bush for being a drunken f-up and awol, they won't forgive sharpton for defending tawana to the death.

                    "Some were afraid, some just wanted a bit o' his power, 'cause he was gettin' himself power all right. Dark days Harry." --The Sorcerer's Stone

                    by JaneKnowles on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 08:14:43 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Racism in America (none)
                      you'll love my post next week.

                      I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

                      by Armando on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 08:44:04 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  as long as you include (none)
                        an etymology of maroon vs. Maroons then we're golden!

                        "Some were afraid, some just wanted a bit o' his power, 'cause he was gettin' himself power all right. Dark days Harry." --The Sorcerer's Stone

                        by JaneKnowles on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 09:05:54 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  What a piece of work (none)
                          I sometime think those types are just right wing put ons, but who knows.

                          BTW, I'm West Indian too - Cuban living in Puerto Rico.

                          I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

                          by Armando on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 09:08:38 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  last year (none)
                            i had a to-the-matt argument with my cuban neighbor's ex-marine brother. i had innocently gone up to the neighborhood spanish restaurant w/ my son to get some take-out roasted chicken and he was in there. he INSISTED that we join him. i started knocking down everything about bush and the iraq war and he kept yelling (in a loud, but friendly drunken manner mind you), "it doesn't mattah!!" every perfect argument i made, he'd shout back, "it doesn't mattah!" and then in between shouting me down, he'd give loud throwing instructions to my baseball-playing son, "over the top, isaiah!" "just remember, over the top!!"

                            hmph! you cubans! you're all alike!

                            "Some were afraid, some just wanted a bit o' his power, 'cause he was gettin' himself power all right. Dark days Harry." --The Sorcerer's Stone

                            by JaneKnowles on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 09:31:58 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  True enough (none)
                            Heh.

                            "It doesn't mattah."

                            I like that.  May use it for a little while, with attribution of course.

                            I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

                            by Armando on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 09:47:10 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

          •  I can't remember where I saw it... (none)
            but there was some speculation/evidence that Sharpton was being funded by repubs to disrupt the primaries... wish I still had the link but I can't find it.

            It's bad luck to be superstitious.

            by JLongs on Mon Dec 06, 2004 at 04:54:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting thread, that. (none)
          The Anti-Sharpton feeling was also incredibly strong, but I think that had less to do with primary politics and more to do with something else altogether, but that's something for another thread.  At a much later time.

           A social history of DKos would not be complete without it. You could combine it with the GA post primary discussion.

          "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

          by colleen on Mon Dec 06, 2004 at 06:14:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  All the Kerry supporters (none)
        are back on this site now.  Can hardly say a word against him these days.  

        I came here directly from the Howard Dean website.  That was my introduction to blogs and I relish the many discussions here.  But why the angst at discussion of fraud?  Just don't want to discuss it?  Detracts from making plans for the future?  It would seem that until we know what happened, we cannot possibly prevent the same in the future.

        My first awareness of the Dean/anti Dean trouble was when D.C. people were really attacking Dean.  Dean people complained, and we were off to the races.  Now people criticize kerry, and whoosh, we are off to the races.

        •  I don't have any angst (4.00)
          about discussing fruad when there is a basis upon which to discuss it.  At the moment that basis doesn't exist and I've seen some incredibly sloppy thinking and lazy logic in connection with most of the overt statements of fraud.  I tend to stay away from sloppy thinking and lazy logic no matter what the subject.

          When reasonable people discuss it reasonably I participate, see markusd's diaries among others.

          In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

          by a gilas girl on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 03:31:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  markusd (none)
            That's the guy.  how to discuss it.

            I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

            by Armando on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 03:34:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  i like to see (none)
            all KINDS of discussion about fraud--from well-researched to crazed and paranoid. now admittedly i'm not adding to any of these discussions, but i'm rooting for all of these posters. i want this topic to stay HOT. and i just keeping hoping that maybe some gold nugget will emerge out of the chaos (and in my dreams i even allow myself to think of it taking george down like a stone!). one thing i hate and get very bummed out is people dismissing/making fun of any election fraud diary that isn't impeccable in its presentation. we need these posters' passion and we should not be driving it away or discourating it. what was it daschle used to say . . . just cause i'm paranoid doesn't mean there isn't anything to be paranoid about . . . or something like that (please someone tell me if i bushed his quote.)

            "Some were afraid, some just wanted a bit o' his power, 'cause he was gettin' himself power all right. Dark days Harry." --The Sorcerer's Stone

            by JaneKnowles on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 08:40:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  A Kerry Supporter (none)
      I've been on Kos since pre-scoop days and I was in the vast minority here on Kos by supporting Kerry, but as much as it bothered me when Kos would rank Kerry next to dead last in the Cattle Calls (often times below Joementum, which I thought was absurd), I stuck around.  I had a lot of good threads with Dean supporters, where they argued how great Dean was and I tried to convince them that Kerry was actually pretty bad ass (busting up Iran-Contra, leading the Veterans against the war) even though he often came across as kind of a prick nowadays.  I ended up taking the position that I wanted Kerry the candidate, with Dean's message, and I think that;s what we ultimately got.  NOw I still admire what Kerry did for our country, but I fully support Dean for DNC chair.  I think we need reform, we need an active, stronger party that's not afraid to innovate.  Regardless of who we supported in the primaries, the people that stuck around throughout those battles shared and still share that common goal.  

      "If he who bases his hopes on human nature is a fool, he who gives up in the face of circumstances is a coward." -Albert Camus

      by jcbhan on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 09:59:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There were a few (none)
      My take was that the Kerry people were late to the blog world, most of them, and for the longest time in the primaries there were so few, they stuck together on friendly turf (ie the Kerry blog).  I jumped to the Kerry camp myself right when Iowa happened, once my serious misgivings about Dean reached critical mass and before I heard the Scream or any of that business.  Then I fought with a number of people here off and on for a couple months, and said some really bad-tempered things about Clark..

      But even before that I always had a fondness for Kerry as my second-choice candidate & I was the one weirdo who jumped back and forth from the Dean to Kerry blogs - it started as an attempt to calm the waters with the Kerry people 'cause I figured he was toast until at least late December & it'd be better if other candidates' supporters weren't averse to switching to Dean.  

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