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View Diary: Teen pregnancy in the Red States (325 comments)

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  •  Wow, are you a red state? (none)
    Which one are you?  Texas?  Virginia?  

    I'd like to call you by name, because if I could, I'd like to point out, Mr. State, that Markos didn't say he hated you.  He said that you will have to work out your own social problems before you can impose your solutions elsewhere.

    I submit that if you think this is hatred, you're a very fortunate individual, or state, because you have no idea what it's like to be hated.

    •  Our social problems? (none)
      High crime rates? Oh wait that would be blue states like California and New york.

      Racism? Hmm south central had the riots. NYC police seem to gun down or anally rape a black man every few days..

      Pollution? I seem to recall dukakis standing in front of one of the most polluted bodies of water in the nation making an environmental speech.. it wasnt in the south. The rivers in NY are toxic. LA citizens cant go outside on certain days because they wont be able to breathe.

      Who's social problems do "we" need to solve again?

      The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed) My other Drunken ravings

      by cdreid on Wed Dec 08, 2004 at 11:05:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's my point (none)
        I'm very interested in looking into red state solutions for social problems in which they have a better handle on it than we do.  If red state cities are less violently criminal than blue state cities, I want to look into why.  I think blue state policies should have less say when they're failing.

        Red state policies in the areas of divorce and teen parenthood and infant mortality, however, are social problems in which they are failing and therefore, their solutions should not be adopted and should be pointed out as failures.

        •  This stuff isnt geographical (none)
          Thats my point.

          The south has its problems. So does the midwest, the north etc etc. They are Local problems.

          LA and NYC have huge racial problems. Those problems imho are caused by the California and New York City governments. Not the people. A heavy handed elitist governance of the "masses". Yet .. the south and midwest get accused of having racial problems? It's illogical. We do.. but theyre nothing compared to the problems in the 'blue state utopias'.

          The south is about to deal with a problem the north has had (and for the most part failed to deal with). Industrial pollution. American industry moved south en masse during the 80's and 90's. As did quite a bit of the rustbelt population. And the south is seeing the beginnings of the pollution problems that same industry brought to the north. Whether we deal with it and how is mostly a southern problem.

          On crime rates. Crime problems are local and state problems. Almost all law enforcement is local. Agencies like the FBI etc are huge beauracracies that for the most part have budgets that far outweigh their usefullness.
          The reason i can leave my doors open at night are cultural. The south is a gun culture. You break into someones house at midnight you are Likely to get shot dead. In nyc that isnt so. In the south if twenty late teens hang on a corner stopping cars and acting suspiciously... The neighbors dont just call the cops they go over and chase them off. In LA i imagine that would get you killed.

          My point, and anger at all this ignorant "redstater" hatred is that it is just that. It's no better than ignorant repulsive racism. And id have a little reticence to knock someone saying that on his ass as i would doing the same to someone who called someone an "n" in my presence.

          We lost the election for multiple reasons. None of them had anything to do with "red state ignorance" or "the ungreatful poor and minorities" or whateve the hatred-du-jour is. We lost because our party stands for nothing but keeping its ruling class in power and priviledge. We lost because the party abandones you, and me, and the Jeffersonians, and the FDR democrats, and the Libertarians, and the NAACP, and the Real feminists who fight for equality rather than outlawing hte missionary position, etc etc.

          Our party abandoned everything it ever stood for. And all it has left is we diehards. Whom they view as pocketbooks and useful idiots. We will win by kicking this incompetant spoiled aristocracy out of power. Not by attacking 50% of the democratic base, spouting vile hatred at poor religious working mothers, ungreatful blacks, lazy youth etc etc.

          The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed) My other Drunken ravings

          by cdreid on Thu Dec 09, 2004 at 03:07:29 PM PST

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          •  I think you're not being objective (none)
            I mean that in the nicest possible way.

            First, taking an attack on your state personally is certainly an old custom dating back to the civil war at least, but it's really not very productive.  

            I am perfectly capable of despising the way a state does business without despising the people in it--failure to distinguish these two things bespeaks hatred inside the person who cannot distinguish.

            Texas, for example, is a huge failure when it comes to criminal justice.  I can point this out ceaselessly, and I can rightly take-to-task a culture in Texas that promotes these failures.

            In a democracy, government is a reflection on its citizens--the citizens in Texas who keep supporting a rabid execution system are not to be coddled so that the Democrats in Texas can feel better.

            I'm sorry that you keep thinking that talking about the problems in red states is a personal attack on you, or any one person, or that you see it as hatred.  I'm not going to stop the comparisons so long as they are leading to more objective conclusions about policy--to do otherwise would be intellectually dishonest.

            I know it must be very hard to be a Democrat in a red state right now and I'm sure it's easy to take all of this personally, but that's a victimization problem that I'm not sure how to address.  

            Best to you, and I look forward to more interesting conversations with you on other topics.

            •  These attacks (none)
              werent on "red state government" or .. whatever it is you are claiming they are. They were literal attacks on the voters in those states. The citizens. Attacks claiming "red staters" .. that is the majority of the nation, are ignorant, illogical uneducated etc etc. But laying that aside..

              It isnt the red states that have the problems. Yes Texas government has built a 24/7 death machine. It's wrong from our (anti death penalty people) position. But that is a moral decision by the people of that state. If you look closely it's mostly the Blue states that have the problems everyone seems to desire to pin on the red states. Crime , pollution, etc etc. How people living in LA, New Jersey, NYC etc can seriously say that Fla, NC,SC etc have crime problems etc etc  boggles the mind. Its not even like the statistics on all this arent easy to find.

              The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed) My other Drunken ravings

              by cdreid on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:59:10 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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