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View Diary: Over the Line: Wingnut Pastor Attempts Inciting Assassination (216 comments)

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  •  Because we have a Constitution. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GreyHawk

    If you want to repeal the 1st Amendment, you'll need 2/3 votes in each Chamber of Congress, and ratification by the Legislatures of 3/4 of the States.



    Medical Marijuana is Healthcare. does YOUR bill cover it?

    by ben masel on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:37:04 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  We also have some limits on the 1st amendment. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SaraBeth

      The GOP doesn't hesitate to test those limits, or when the situation is reversed to try and impose them.

      This guy's speech is hopefully being subjected to the tests of whether it meets or exceeds the criteria.

      I think it's over the line; if he's not taken to court on it, then obviously the authorities don't.

      That doesn't mean I can't express my opinion about it.

      A corrupted government. Patriots branded as renegades. This is how we roll.

      by GreyHawk on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:48:25 PM PDT

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    •  Does the 1st amendment give the right (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek, SaraBeth, GreyHawk

      to call for assassinations and murders ? Then why there are statuettes calling for harm to the President is a punishable crime ?

      I am trying to understand the limits of 1st amendment.

      Between birthers, deathers and mouth-breathers, the gop has got 'teh crazy' and 'teh stoopid' covered.

      by amk for obama on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:50:53 PM PDT

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      •  As refined in Brandenburg, (4+ / 0-)

        the 1st Amendment allows for the espousal of criminal acts, or philosophical justifications for them, in the abstract, but not in the here and now. I get the impression Anderson's read the case, and chose his words carefully, stopping just short of the Brandenburg threshold.

        Berandenburg distinguishes 'someone should' from "there he is, this is your chance."

        The "imminen prong was further refined by the Supreme Court in Hess v Indiana 414 U.S. 105 (1973), where "We'll take the fucking street tomorrow' was deemed insufficiently imminent to justify a disorderly conduct conviction.



        Medical Marijuana is Healthcare. does YOUR bill cover it?

        by ben masel on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:57:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nice informational nugget -- thank you. n/t (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          G2geek, SaraBeth

          A corrupted government. Patriots branded as renegades. This is how we roll.

          by GreyHawk on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 07:23:48 PM PDT

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          •  i've actually learned a decent amount from Ben... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SaraBeth, GreyHawk

            in the course of debating him over these issues on dKos.

            Personally I stand with the folks supporting prosecuting these creeps by any available means, so my angle here is "if we can't bust him for X, we need to change the law and meanwhile bust him for Y."   But it's good to know the kinds of legal hurdles we face along the way, in order to point to the areas where we need to change statutes and try for new Supreme Court rulings.

            •  Yep -- it's a good approach. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              G2geek, SaraBeth

              Actually, "it" in both instances:

              1. dKos as a learning instrument, with debates between folks like Ben and yourself or the interplay of folks in general, helping us all learn more about the topics that we discuss, and
              1. finding a manner and method of dealing with dangers until the laws can be adjusted -- legally, and within ways that support and not supplant the Constitution -- in order to provide a more viable method of dealing with the dangerously deranged and unhinged.

              A corrupted government. Patriots branded as renegades. This is how we roll.

              by GreyHawk on Mon Sep 14, 2009 at 03:28:10 AM PDT

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              •  the holy grail right now... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GreyHawk

                ...in the intel & law enforcement universe, is to find a way to predict lone wolves.  They do seem to leave tracks around that, after the fact, are recognized as precursors or warnings.  But so do a lot of other people who turn out to be harmless nuts.  

                We can collect a hell of a lot more intel than we can process, even without access to NSA or any kind of wiretaps or email intercepts.  Sorting the wheat from the chaff is the issue here.   There are software tools that would make your hair curl (or your toes, depending:-) but those have limits and ultimately it comes down to humans staring at pages of "stuff" trying to make intuitive guesses that turn out to be right.  

                Whoever finds the key to this one is going to be a very happy person (and probably wealthy too).  

        •  Thanks Ben. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GreyHawk

          Between birthers, deathers and mouth-breathers, the gop has got 'teh crazy' and 'teh stoopid' covered.

          by amk for obama on Mon Sep 14, 2009 at 05:46:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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