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View Diary: On Obama's "Dive In the Polls" And 2010 (222 comments)

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    •  America prefers real repub over repub in dem (1+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      dotalbon
      Hidden by:
      Steaming Pile

      clothing

      sadly it looks like it will be Huckleberry religious nut who gets repub nom and with his more populist financial leanings + Mandates without PO (a gift with a bow on top)= huge backlash

      Obama was a centrist during the campaign but he has clearly gone right of center

      america will take a real repub over a repub in dem clothing

      •  Huckabee will beat Obama in NV and IA and OH? (5+ / 0-)
        •  mandates without Po = YES (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dotalbon

          Huckalberry crazy with his more populous financial stands (as vs other repubs) will use Mandates without PO as a the huge gift it will be

          the average voter will rebel against mandates without PO and the base will find a huge chunk of progressives sitting it out over being disappointed

          Hell, the gays (83% of registered gay voters vote dem) are already talking about sitting 2010 and 2012 out not because of DADT and DOMA but because of Obama's DOJ defending DOMA with words describing gay relationships as equivelant to incestuous relationships

          •  Yep, I'm sitting out unless things change. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DEMonrat ankle biter

            It's not 1990 anymore and I'm thoroughly finished voting for any politician whose official position is that as a matter of conscience and policy I should be a second-class citizen.

            •  Uhhh.... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              scotths, sethyeah

              Fine, except that sitting out is a de facto vote for the other side. Don't think sitting out is somehow not helping the other side.

            •  I'm sorry .. I read these rants (0+ / 0-)

              and can't help but feel frustrated at the short sightedness of this thinking. I am behind you 100% and believe you deserve the full rights and responsibilities of citizenship in this country.

              The reality is that the path to getting this to happen is to elect more Democrats! The more you elect the more progressive the policies will become on all issues!

              This is the first time in decades that we have a Democratic President with a Democratic party without a significant conservative southern democratic component. With the youth supporting democrats by a 2:1 margin the support is likely to strengthen, not weaken under this administration.

              After decades of waiting you want to throw it all away because you don't get what you want in the first 2 years?

              •  NO not more dems .......BETTER DEMS! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Pender

                DLC more dems = repubs dressed up as dem blue dogs = Not the dems of FDR

                Better dems

                •  true.. if that is possible.. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DEMonrat ankle biter

                  But if a better democrat isn't possible in a given district, any democrat is better than a republican! Larger majorities could force the questionable dems to get on board or at the very least give them enough cover to vote their conscious. Pushing out weak dems. in borderline seats would be quite counterproductive!

                  •  On the other hand, if I vote for the Dem (0+ / 0-)

                    no matter his or her position on equality, there's not much incentive for dems in borderline districts ever to support me.

                    The Dems think the gays are a safe vote, so they never do anything for our equality because from a cold-blooded pragmatic perspective it would be wasted effort -- it would piss off the religious right without getting them any new votes. Fine, I understand that calculus, and I will be a cold-blooded pragmatist and put my vote up for grabs.

              •  Kind of obnoxious to dismiss the comment as a (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                scotths

                rant. It's one sentence and doesn't say anything that isn't 100% true.

                •  true... sorry.. (0+ / 0-)

                  Rant really wasn't the right way to express this.

                  Right now I feel frustrated with the Democrats for not taking a stronger position on these issues, but I really feel that the way to make that happen is to strengthen their majority not to weaken it. Support for Gay right rises with each year. Each year more states will add marriage and/or domestic partnership benefits and each year it will get a little easier for the politicians in Washington to make needed changes.

                  Meanwhile... Energy, the environment, restructuring the economy... These are issues that effect everyone gay or straight! If we don't address them now it could lead to the downfall of our country as we know it. We are playing right into the hands of the conservatives who oppose us on real economic change when we push too hard on social issues and block progress on all issues. We can't allow the conservatives to divide and conquerer us!

                  •  I might agree with you IF (0+ / 0-)

                    the Democrats were pushing for equality issues and falling short of the votes they need.

                    But they're not. Repealing DOMA isn't anywhere on their agenda, let alone affirmatively declaring marriage or even civil union rights for gay Americans. Barack Obama's official position is that "marriage is between a man and a woman."

                    I'm sorry, but I'm not voting for that bigoted crap ever again. I'll vote for my two Senators -- Gillibrand and Schumer -- because they support marriage equality. But unless Barack Obama changes his tune, I'll sit it out. If he wants my vote, well, maybe he shouldn't preach that I deserve to be a second-class citizen under the laws of the country.

                    If you were black, and we were living under Jim Crow, I would fully support your decision not to vote for a candidate -- Democrat or Republican -- who believed Jim Crow should remain in effect. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to act analogously under our modern regime of de jure anti-gay discrimination.

                    •  How do you know (0+ / 0-)

                      what Obama is pushing? Maybe he pushed but realizes he can't get the votes right now? Maybe he realizes we will get a better outcome on gay rights once the health care and immigration debates are settled at the crazies have calmed down some!

                      After 30 years of conservative government, we've finally crossed the threshold and begun liberal reforms. I can't understand why people can't at least give them a couple of years before getting upset over the slow progress!

                      •  Because it's always been just a couple more years (0+ / 0-)

                        and I'm tired of waiting. Don't worry, though; if he changes his tune in a couple of years, I will vote for him in 2012. If not, forget it.

                        How do I know what Obama is pushing? Let me count the ways.

                        1. "Marriage is between a man and a woman."
                        1. Gibbs is "not aware" of any active effort to repeal DOMA, or even DADT.
                        1. Total cold shoulder during Proposition 8, which was the single most important moment in the history of the struggle for gay equality.
                        1. Continued cold shoulder now that there's a similar campaign on in Maine.
                        1. Multiple DOJ briefs in support of DOMA constitutionality.
                        1. Comments from liberal legislators such as Pelosi who claim that there is no movement in any branch of government to repeal DOMA, or even DADT.

                        This is not a man who cares about minority rights -- as long as the minority is gay people -- or at least he has provided no evidence at all that he is.

                        •  a (0+ / 0-)

                          So.. You'll vote against him in 2012 if not enough progress.. Let's say you succeed and manage to get a Republican in to office... We can look forward to all sorts of fun things:

                          1. War! Where could we invade next?
                          1. More delays on global warming while the pole melts and Greenland starts to melt!
                          1. Starvation due to above unaddressed climate change leading to loss of agricultural land!
                          1. Resumption of push to amend constitution to explicitly ban gay marriage.
                          1. Demonization of immigrants... Blame placed on them for unaddressed economic problems. Perhaps blame also extends to liberals.
                          1. Massive gas shortages due to lack of plan to deal with peak oil. Blame placed on environmentalists for blocking access to non-existent stashes of oil!
                          1. Conflict with China or Russia over remaining supplies of oil.. See 1.

                          etc.

                          You are seriously willing to risk all of the due to a delay in repealing DOMA and DADT as state after state begins to introduce domestic partnerships and gay marriage?

                          •  Yup. (0+ / 0-)

                            No constitutional amendment to ban marriage equality is going to get off the ground. And frankly, as important as the rest of that shit seems to you, there is ALWAYS going to be a list of shit that people like you think is more important than my equality, and if gay people keep enabling them, the Democratic President and Congress are always going to agree. I will not wait forever to be an equal citizen while the assholes in DC take my money and take my vote and then stab me in the back and tell me to get lost. Fine, I understand that they don't think it's in their interest to fight for basic civil equality under the law, or even to say out loud that they believe in it. Well guess what? It's not in my interest to validate that strategy. I'll be waiting if they change their minds.

                          •  see.. I disagree there.. (0+ / 0-)

                            A few election cycles ago I felt that social issues including equal rights for gay people were quite high on the agenda. I didn't see a list of other things that I felt were more important. The world has changed since then. In 2 key ways:

                            1. The more liberal social side won the hearts and minds of the young generation. Thus, no matter what happens it is only a matter of time before gays and lesbians are full citizens in every part of this country in every way. This war has been won!
                            1. Issues that could literally bring the downfall of our society have come to the fore. If issues like climate change and peak oil aren't addressed now the result could be a catastrophe. This war hasn't been won!

                            Thus, when I read these things I feel like people are saying "Fine, give me what I want ASAP or I'll put the crazy people back in charge and we can all go down!"...

                          •  The war has NOT been won. (0+ / 0-)

                            I am still a second-class citizen.

                            I don't know what you think the next generation is going to do about this when public support is already over 50% among Republicans and among weekly churchgoers to repeal DADT, and yet the administration and Congress are moving at a snail's pace. Do you understand that? Depending on the poll, overall support is as high as 80% of the country in support of repeal, and yet in this single-party Democratic government, nothing is happening, because the Democrats couldn't care less about gay people.

                            Let's be really clear here: the Democrats are the problem. I'm not voting for them. I don't owe my vote to anyone. If they want it, they can earn it.

        •  Huckabee is a carnival man. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sethyeah

          I can't see him in the Oval Office.  I would never vote for a minister or priest for president.  Politics and religion don't mix, and I think most people agree.

      •  Not. (11+ / 0-)

        I find your name and message suspect.

        DEMonrat sounds  like rightwing blather to me.

        And yer fucking wrong

        america will take a real repub over a repub in dem clothing

        They had their chance and they tosses McFailin to the curb

        Dream on.

        The GOP would do better running dogshit againt Obama.

        They don't even have dogshit.

        Torture good, Healthcare bad, Marijuana evil.
        Doc in the Twitterverse

        by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 08:56:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Funny you claim to be progressive (8+ / 0-)

        but you fail to see this is not about whether Obama polls are up ar down or whether he wins reelection.

        This is about what some here have been fighting for for decades and have giving a lot to make it happen.

        No matter how bad you claim Obama is, no true progressive would prefer to go back to what we had for 8 years.

      •  Right of center???? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, velvet blasphemy, soms

        Oh well, to each their own definition of "right" and "center", and especially "left".

        "It's important to realize that I was actually black before the election". - Barack Obama.

        by blackwaterdog on Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 09:05:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Prove it. (0+ / 0-)

        I mean, really prove it.  With attribution.  Otherwise, you're a PUMA in my book.

        Half-baked ideas for sale - cheap!

        by Steaming Pile on Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 09:26:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Who do they have? (6+ / 0-)

      No...really, who does the GOP have to present to America with a straight face?

      Nooooo-body.

      Torture good, Healthcare bad, Marijuana evil.
      Doc in the Twitterverse

      by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 08:52:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Right now...no one (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DEMonrat ankle biter

      But Obama came out of nowhere in just over four years, so don't put it outside the realm of possibility that a rising star could appear in the GOP ranks who has just what it takes to take advantage of a weakened Obama.

      As of now, I find it hard to see any of the current prominent Republicans beating Obama. But you never take anything for granted in politics (lest you want to end up like Hillary).

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