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View Diary: On Obama's "Dive In the Polls" And 2010 (222 comments)

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  •  I might agree with you IF (0+ / 0-)

    the Democrats were pushing for equality issues and falling short of the votes they need.

    But they're not. Repealing DOMA isn't anywhere on their agenda, let alone affirmatively declaring marriage or even civil union rights for gay Americans. Barack Obama's official position is that "marriage is between a man and a woman."

    I'm sorry, but I'm not voting for that bigoted crap ever again. I'll vote for my two Senators -- Gillibrand and Schumer -- because they support marriage equality. But unless Barack Obama changes his tune, I'll sit it out. If he wants my vote, well, maybe he shouldn't preach that I deserve to be a second-class citizen under the laws of the country.

    If you were black, and we were living under Jim Crow, I would fully support your decision not to vote for a candidate -- Democrat or Republican -- who believed Jim Crow should remain in effect. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to act analogously under our modern regime of de jure anti-gay discrimination.

    •  How do you know (0+ / 0-)

      what Obama is pushing? Maybe he pushed but realizes he can't get the votes right now? Maybe he realizes we will get a better outcome on gay rights once the health care and immigration debates are settled at the crazies have calmed down some!

      After 30 years of conservative government, we've finally crossed the threshold and begun liberal reforms. I can't understand why people can't at least give them a couple of years before getting upset over the slow progress!

      •  Because it's always been just a couple more years (0+ / 0-)

        and I'm tired of waiting. Don't worry, though; if he changes his tune in a couple of years, I will vote for him in 2012. If not, forget it.

        How do I know what Obama is pushing? Let me count the ways.

        1. "Marriage is between a man and a woman."
        1. Gibbs is "not aware" of any active effort to repeal DOMA, or even DADT.
        1. Total cold shoulder during Proposition 8, which was the single most important moment in the history of the struggle for gay equality.
        1. Continued cold shoulder now that there's a similar campaign on in Maine.
        1. Multiple DOJ briefs in support of DOMA constitutionality.
        1. Comments from liberal legislators such as Pelosi who claim that there is no movement in any branch of government to repeal DOMA, or even DADT.

        This is not a man who cares about minority rights -- as long as the minority is gay people -- or at least he has provided no evidence at all that he is.

        •  a (0+ / 0-)

          So.. You'll vote against him in 2012 if not enough progress.. Let's say you succeed and manage to get a Republican in to office... We can look forward to all sorts of fun things:

          1. War! Where could we invade next?
          1. More delays on global warming while the pole melts and Greenland starts to melt!
          1. Starvation due to above unaddressed climate change leading to loss of agricultural land!
          1. Resumption of push to amend constitution to explicitly ban gay marriage.
          1. Demonization of immigrants... Blame placed on them for unaddressed economic problems. Perhaps blame also extends to liberals.
          1. Massive gas shortages due to lack of plan to deal with peak oil. Blame placed on environmentalists for blocking access to non-existent stashes of oil!
          1. Conflict with China or Russia over remaining supplies of oil.. See 1.


          You are seriously willing to risk all of the due to a delay in repealing DOMA and DADT as state after state begins to introduce domestic partnerships and gay marriage?

          •  Yup. (0+ / 0-)

            No constitutional amendment to ban marriage equality is going to get off the ground. And frankly, as important as the rest of that shit seems to you, there is ALWAYS going to be a list of shit that people like you think is more important than my equality, and if gay people keep enabling them, the Democratic President and Congress are always going to agree. I will not wait forever to be an equal citizen while the assholes in DC take my money and take my vote and then stab me in the back and tell me to get lost. Fine, I understand that they don't think it's in their interest to fight for basic civil equality under the law, or even to say out loud that they believe in it. Well guess what? It's not in my interest to validate that strategy. I'll be waiting if they change their minds.

            •  see.. I disagree there.. (0+ / 0-)

              A few election cycles ago I felt that social issues including equal rights for gay people were quite high on the agenda. I didn't see a list of other things that I felt were more important. The world has changed since then. In 2 key ways:

              1. The more liberal social side won the hearts and minds of the young generation. Thus, no matter what happens it is only a matter of time before gays and lesbians are full citizens in every part of this country in every way. This war has been won!
              1. Issues that could literally bring the downfall of our society have come to the fore. If issues like climate change and peak oil aren't addressed now the result could be a catastrophe. This war hasn't been won!

              Thus, when I read these things I feel like people are saying "Fine, give me what I want ASAP or I'll put the crazy people back in charge and we can all go down!"...

              •  The war has NOT been won. (0+ / 0-)

                I am still a second-class citizen.

                I don't know what you think the next generation is going to do about this when public support is already over 50% among Republicans and among weekly churchgoers to repeal DADT, and yet the administration and Congress are moving at a snail's pace. Do you understand that? Depending on the poll, overall support is as high as 80% of the country in support of repeal, and yet in this single-party Democratic government, nothing is happening, because the Democrats couldn't care less about gay people.

                Let's be really clear here: the Democrats are the problem. I'm not voting for them. I don't owe my vote to anyone. If they want it, they can earn it.

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