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View Diary: Truth about ACORN lost in the rightwing BS (200 comments)

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  •  Your argument is self-contradictory (0+ / 0-)

    If Republicans only want the rich to vote, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would want more rich people?  If so, what purpose would they have in attempting to keep the poor "as poor as possible?"

    •  Since when did Republicans use logic? (0+ / 0-)

      "I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."

      by Futuristic Dreamer on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 09:01:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's the "Logic of Scarcity" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Futuristic Dreamer

        They think wealth is a static quantity, so in order for them to have more, someone else must have less.

        That this is a flagrant contradiction of their "free-market" ideology never crosses their alleged minds.

        If it's
        Not your body
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        AND it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 09:06:49 AM PDT

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        •  I don't think anyone (0+ / 0-)

          thinks that wealth is a static quality.  Hence both parties support growth.  They just differ as to what is the best way to achieve it.

          •  Oh it's you again Dgrth (0+ / 0-)

            I'm afraid that either they DO think that way, or they think that it's OK to grab mega-millions of dollars and let mere pennies trickle down to the mob.

            Neither is any kind of recipe for a stable or peaceful society. But they don't care about that either as long as they get theirs NOW.

            If it's
            Not your body
            Then it's
            Not your choice
            AND it's
            None of your damn business!

            by TheOtherMaven on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 09:33:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's a very different argument (0+ / 0-)

              But the point is that if Republicans were convinced that the rich vote Republican (and I am not sure they do, since in 2008 Obama won 52% of those making 200K+) they would want more rich people.

      •  People who want votes (0+ / 0-)

        know how to get them.

        •  LOL (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kefauver

          Actually they know how not get them for the other side.

          Between that and claiming you believe your eyes when you see something on Fox news, I don't know if you're horribly naive, or just insincere.

          It isn't only wealthy people who vote Republican, it's wealthy people and people who are brainwashed by their propaganda.  Brainwashing people with propaganda is a lot easier than making more wealthy people.

          "I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."

          by Futuristic Dreamer on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 09:19:12 AM PDT

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    •  You don't understand (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kefauver, Futuristic Dreamer

      The Republican objective is to keep poor people as powerless as possible.  They must do this because the Republicans are a natural minority.  One way to keep the poor powerless is to keep them destitute; another is to prevent them from voting; another is to put them in prison and give them a criminal record; another is to attack and demonize advocates for the poor.

      Patriotism is the conviction that your country is superior to all others because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw

      by rmx2630 on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 09:16:45 AM PDT

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      •  I am not sure that Republicans are (0+ / 0-)

        a natural minority.  Given that self-identified conservatives outnumber self-identified liberals by about 2:1, it would seem that Republicans are at least an even bet.  (Recall that many self-identified Democrats in the South are actually conservative and actually vote Republican).

        •  First of all, Republicans are NOT conservative (0+ / 0-)

          Secondly, self-identified Republicans are a minority.  

          As the radical G.W. Bush administration demonstrated, the Republican Party will abandon Conservatism when Radicalism will give them the power they want.  The true Republican constituency are the moneyed elite - that is the natural minority.  All others: social conservatives; the economic conservatives; the religious right; the neo-cons; the government hating libertarians; the fetus worshipers; the Teabaggers; are just tools given power and molded through the money provided by the real enduring power behind the Republican Party - just like the rabid anti-communists were tools.

          (BTW can you provide a cite for your 2:1 claim?  I did some checking - seems way off.)

          Patriotism is the conviction that your country is superior to all others because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw

          by rmx2630 on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 10:34:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Again, in 2008 Obama (0+ / 0-)

            actually won the "moneyed elite," while McCain carried the middle class.  McCain won those making 50-75K 49% to 48%, those making 100-150K by 51% to 485 and those making 150-200K by 50% to 48%.  Together those 3 groups constituted 41% of the electorate.  McCain lost the 75-100K group, which is an additional 15% of electorate by 51-48.  The Republican Party of today is not the Republican Party of 1940s with its Northeastern bluebloods.

            As to the 2:1 ratio.  Latest Gallup poll 40% to 21%.  http://www.gallup.com/...

            And again, whether or not the Republican party is "truly" conservative, is not the issue.  I think there is little dispute that they are MORE conservative than the Democratic Party.  Hence, if conservative outnumber liberals (as the polls show) then Republican party cannot be a "natural minority."

            •  Thanks for providing the citation (0+ / 0-)

              And I agree that it does indicate that self-identified conservatives out number self-identified liberals by a 2 to 1 margin.  

              You might be interested in the following survey which expanded the response choices to include "progressive" and "libertarian".

              State of American Political Ideology, 2009 (pdf)

              Q.59/60 Which of the following do you feel best describes your political perspective?

              Total Progressive      16
              Total Liberal              15
              Moderate                  29
              Total Conservative     34
              Total Libertarian          2
              (Other)                       2
              (Don’t know/Refused)    3

              Now, I should not have used such an imprecise term as "moneyed elite".  I consider all the income categories you listed (50-75K, 100-150K, 75-100K) as solidly middle class.  You may recall when Orange County pastor Rick Warren asked McCain and Obama to define "rich".  Obama said the bottom cut-off was $250,000 while McCain said $5,000,000.  When I use the term, I am referring to those who predominately do not work for wages or salaries - I am referring to top 5% who own 60% of the total wealth in the US.  

              Patriotism is the conviction that your country is superior to all others because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw

              by rmx2630 on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 01:27:04 PM PDT

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              •  That's an interesting poll (0+ / 0-)

                but I wonder what the difference is between "liberal" and "progressive" and what "total" adds to it.

                •  I don't know the difference (0+ / 0-)

                  But perhaps, for some otherwise left leaning people there is a stigma attached to the term "liberal".

                  There is an obvious distinction between "libertarian" and "conservative" and I don't understand why pollsters don't routinely include it.

                  Patriotism is the conviction that your country is superior to all others because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw

                  by rmx2630 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:54:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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