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View Diary: Gay marriage: It really is about the kids (26 comments)

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  •  That sounds completely counterproductive (0+ / 0-)

    A zero tolerance policy that breeds resentment is not an effective way to promote understanding.

    Also by treating serious conduct--teasing or bullying--the same as more mild conduct--the non-malicious use of words that while inappropriate and hurtful are part of children's everyday speech--can make the idea that homophobic speech is harmful seem exaggerated and foolish.

    Yes, saying "that's so gay" should not be anymore acceptable than saying "that is so black," but ignoring the reality that it is doesn't do anyone any favors. We live in the world that is, not the one that should be, and part of making the former more like the latter is acknowledging that truth.

    •  And how do you propose we change it? (0+ / 0-)

      if we allow the world as it it to stay in existence? I totally agree with khereva!

      A Contributing Writer for the Northwest Progressive Institute http://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/

      by danmitch on Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 12:25:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My understanding about the GSAs is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        danmitch

        that it is peer-to-peer work by the students themselves, combined with faculty and administration no longer turning a blind eye to transgressions, that is key. And as the NYTimes article notes, this is made much more acceptable when a very popular student either comes out or stands in support of others that have.

        A lesson that our elected officials - especially members of Congress that don't deign to "interfere" with issues in their own states - can learn.

      •  I think a simple "that's not appropriate" (0+ / 0-)

        for occasional, non-malicious comments is probably more effective.

        For a lot of young people saying "that's so gay" is a colloquialism. For them issue is pointing out that that it is a hurtful phrase and helping them break the habit of using it.

        I had friends in high school and college who would occasionally say it out of habit and then immediately feel genuinely bad for having said it. I don't think it would have been a worthwhile use of anyone's time or energy to send them them to the principle's office.

        •  "That's not appropriate"... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tennessee Dave, danmitch

          ...without an explanation of why it is not apprpriate is useless.

          •  Quite clearly... (0+ / 0-)

            You suggested:
            I- An initial explanation.
            II- Referrals.

            I was taking exception to II, saying that in many instances something less severe would be more effective.

            I was not taking exception to I, quite clearing it would be ineffective, which is why the suggesting that I was suggesting otherwise is rather foolish.

            •  I suggested? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tennessee Dave, danmitch

              Read my comment again.

              Then maybe read the comment that someone else posted to it.  That person suggested the referral for repeated behavior, not for the first instance.

              •  No, actual they didn't (0+ / 0-)

                Perhaps you should read the comment.

                As simple as making up a stack of referrals, even xeroxing them, and letting students know what they were, and what they were for the first time one was handed out.

                After the first, don't interrupt the lesson; just step over, pick one up, and hand it to the student, with a nod of the head toward the door.

                i.e. Explain it when the referral occurs and then refer students in every instance thereafter.

                The most reasonable way of interpreting their proposal is:

                Sept. 5: Student A makes a comment. The referral system is explained and student A is referred.
                Sept. 12: Student B makes a comment. He is referred.
                Oct. 1: Student C makes a comment: He is referred.
                Oct. 15: Student A makes a comment again. She is referred.

                I think it would be infinitely more production to explain that the classroom is a safe space early on in the year. After that, I think simply pointing out that those comments are inappropriate is probably going be more effective.  

        •  I can't believe you are trying (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tennessee Dave

          to explain youth colloqualisms to someone my age, I know them and experience them in school--as someone who is in high school (sophomore year)

          And as many people who are truly regretful, there are plenty of kids who don't care unless they are taught--especially taught why it is not appropriate even when teachers are not around.

          A Contributing Writer for the Northwest Progressive Institute http://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/

          by danmitch on Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 06:36:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Give me a break (0+ / 0-)

            And as many people who are truly regretful, there are plenty of kids who don't care unless they are taught--especially taught why it is not appropriate even when teachers are not around.

            Ummm... yeah they should be. Are you suggesting I said otherwise?

            I can't believe you are trying to explain youth colloqualisms to someone my age, I know them and experience them in school--as someone who is in high school (sophomore year)

            How on earth would I know you are in high school? And why exactly does my failure to assume you are in high school inspire such disbelief? Also I'm only 6 or 7 years older than you, so please spare me the outrage for suggesting that I still remember high school.

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