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View Diary: Glenn Beck And The Fringe View Of Pandemic Flu (382 comments)

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  •  Maybe vaccinating against seasonal flu IS (0+ / 0-)
    •  ::sigh:: (1+ / 0-)
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      We're having this discussion upthread. Most public health experts worldwide have rejected those UNPUBLISHED findings as a fluke. In any case, it doesn't make sense to rely on a single study that comes to a very counter-intuitive conclusion, before those findings can even be replicated or even examined by outside peer review.

      •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
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        But it's food for thought. They're not published because they're being peer-reviewed. If they had been published, they would be decried for not being peer-reviewed. Can't fault it for not being published if they're actually doing it the right way. They may be a fluke, they may not. Time will tell. But yes, I agree that policy should not be dictated by an unpublished study.

        •  But at least (0+ / 0-)

          We know that vaccines are all perfectly safe and effective, right?

          •  No one said that. (1+ / 0-)
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            In fact, I have repeatedly said in this very thread that vaccines have risks. My viewpoint is not that they are perfectly safe, but that the risk of not getting them greatly outweighs the risk of getting them.

            There is little reason to believe that the H1N1 vaccine will be more dangerous than other vaccines.

            •  My basic problem (0+ / 0-)

              Is forcing workers to do something that you're admitting is risky. Whether the benefits outweigh the risks is an opinion. I don't like the idea that employers (or the government) have the right to tell you to do something potentially harmful to your body or lose your job. What's to stop any employer from doing that? When all employers do it, can you just say "if you don't want to do it, find another job?"

              •  Not really opinion. (0+ / 0-)

                We can objectively study whether the risk associated with the vaccine is greater or less than the risk associated with the disease.

                •  Mmmm, no (1+ / 0-)
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                  wa ma

                  You can quantify black and white things like risk of dying from the vaccine versus risk of dying from the swine flu, sure. How do you quantify something like getting sick from the vaccine, but not dying? Adverse reactions are on a spectrum, and probably mild reactions will never be tallied. But they count to the person that gets it. So you can study risk on black and white, measurable things like death, if you can even trust that accurate, complete data is going to be kept (I wouldn't assume that at all), but mild to medium illness from the vaccine is much harder.

                  •  I agree that it's somewhat difficult to study. (0+ / 0-)

                    But that type of research can be done, and has been done in the past.

                    Employers don't have a blanket right to force people to do something that carries a small risk like this. The only reason they can in this case is because it's deemed necessary for public health. In other words, it's not so much that they're forcing the workers to get the much as they're saying that the risks associated with them working with patients while unvaccinated are too great.

        •  Thank you (0+ / 0-)

          That is an extremely reasonable response. Five and now possibly six Canadian provinces have suspended the regular flu vaccine because of their findings that it increases the chances of getting swine flu.

          •  the data ought to be transparently published asap (1+ / 0-)
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            wa ma

            based on their response, and they should share it with the US (I assume they are).

            I cannopt tell you if they are being premature with theior decision.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:20:27 AM PDT

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          •  That actually disagrees with his... (0+ / 0-)

            statement that "policy should not be dictated by an unpublished study".

            •  It's fairly likely (0+ / 0-)

              that the people making policy decisions have access to people who are as qualified to evaluate the study as the people on the peer review committee.

              We have always known that heedless self interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics. - FDR 1936

              by AndersOSU on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:36:17 AM PDT

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