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View Diary: Truth is, the Nobel committees don't give a s--t. (224 comments)

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  •  You're making an awful lot (0+ / 0-)

    of far-reaching assumptions about me based on my username and your own personal prejudices about Texans.  First of all, I've met, known, and interacted extensively with a lot of people from a lot of different backgrounds, including more than a few Europeans.  My oldest brother was married to a German for 15 years, and is currently married to a Filipino as is my father.  I have family living in just about every region of this country and on two continents besides this one.  And I've never ridden a horse in my life, so where you're getting the "cowboy" thing from is beyond me.

    Second of all, I never suggested that the limited perspective of a handful of rich white Euros be replaced with my limited perspective.  I suggested that it be replaced with the broader perspective of a wider range of people.  I'm not sure how you reached the bizarre conclusion that having the perspective of people from places like Africa, Asia, and South America represented in the decision-making progress for something this significant is somehow a reflection of me not "giv[ing] a shit about what the type of people he's never met, and doesn't culturally understand, think."  Perhaps your judgment is being clouded by the notion that if the Nobel committee represented a broader range of opinion, it might have been less likely to give the award to Obama.  If that's the case, I think it's unfortunate that you've allowed the strength of your support for Obama to override the support you should have for the principle of inclusiveness that liberals have always considered an important part of our philosophy.

    In any event, I reject the elitist idea that a handful of rich Norwegians have a better overview of the world than others do just because they happen to view it from the top of an ivory tower.

    -7.12, -7.54 / "Health care reform will never take place until Rahm Emanuel is strangled with the entrails of Frank Luntz." - Diderot

    by Big Tex on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 08:22:10 PM PDT

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      •  Hello, it doesn't matter (0+ / 0-)

        whose award it is - it's an important international award, it has political implications, and I have a right to express my opinion about it.

        -7.12, -7.54 / "Health care reform will never take place until Rahm Emanuel is strangled with the entrails of Frank Luntz." - Diderot

        by Big Tex on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 09:09:56 PM PDT

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        •  Big Tex... (5+ / 0-)

          I respect you. I've read your diaries before, and your thoughtful comments, and I respect your opinion. I happen to disagree, though. Perhaps there were more "qualified" candidated, in your opinion, sir. But, to be honest with you, it's your opinion. It was given to him. It's of no consequence to you now. Do you not feel the least bit proud of Barack Obama...?

          "...And finally, whether or not there was an exit strategy." --G.W. Bush (1999 First Gore-Bush debate.)

          by caseyaaronsmith on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 10:50:07 PM PDT

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          •  As a president, yes. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            caseyaaronsmith

            As a Nobel laureate, no, because I think others deserved it more.  And I know it's just my opinion, but others feel that way too, and all of them are not Obama haters as some here (not you, but others) have suggested.

            It's not that I think he never will deserve the award, it's just that what he's done thus far comes up short in comparison to the years, and in some cases decades of hard work, suffering, and even imprisonment that people like Aung San Suu Kyi, Nelson Mandela and Kim Dae Jung endured prior to receiving the award.  What's done is done, but I think the Nobel Peace Prize is a very important achievement and giving it to someone who hasn't earned it yet on the basis of potential undermines what it stands for.

            Anyway, I do appreciate the kind things you said above and thank you for being respectful in disagreeing with me.

            -7.12, -7.54 / "Health care reform will never take place until Rahm Emanuel is strangled with the entrails of Frank Luntz." - Diderot

            by Big Tex on Sat Oct 10, 2009 at 11:57:27 PM PDT

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            •  Well I've read your diaries... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              raster44, Big Tex, LynneK

              I know you don't hate the President. Your honest posts are not troll-worthy. We simply disagree. It's been a mad-house here, though lately. Decent people being accused of Obama hating is something we don't need. We're all, essentially, on the same side. We both hope Obama will do good things. To confuse you with a right-winger is ridiculous, imo. And you raise some good points. I think, however, that this award will not hinder the President, but instead push him in a more progresive direction. I may be wrong, but it's something that remains to be seen.

              "...And finally, whether or not there was an exit strategy." --G.W. Bush (1999 First Gore-Bush debate.)

              by caseyaaronsmith on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 12:09:44 AM PDT

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              •  Fair enough. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                caseyaaronsmith

                And for the record, I'd like to think that ten or twenty years from now the Nobel people will look prescient for having given the award to him.  Anyway, thanks again for keeping it civil.  You're definitely right about it being a madhouse here lately, and I have to admit that I contribute to the madness sometimes because I'm very opinionated and occasionally obnoxiously so.  I'm hoping that the HCR bill culminates in something that will make most of us very happy and give everyone a reason to mellow out for a while.

                -7.12, -7.54 / "Health care reform will never take place until Rahm Emanuel is strangled with the entrails of Frank Luntz." - Diderot

                by Big Tex on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 12:27:00 AM PDT

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            •  It's one thing to take issue with the award... (0+ / 0-)

              ...which you do here. Personally, I think it was simply wishful thinking taken to an absurd level to give it to a man who is considering escalating the war in Afghanistan and who is actively flouting the United States' treaty obligations when it comes to prosecuting torturers.

              What I object to are your assumptions and ad hominem criticisms of the committee itself.

              It's also worth pointing out that the committee has made bigger mistakes than this one. At least there is a decent chance that Obama will wind up deserving it.

            •  The Peace Prize Committee's mandate ... (15+ / 0-)

              ... is to advance the cause of peace, not to certify the "most deserving" peacemaker.  The award has been prospective and aspirational almost as often as it has been retrospective and salutational.  The Peace Prize Committee seems to have decided that giving the award to President Obama would be their best effort to advance the cause of peace, and that is the spirit in which President Obama accepted their gift.

              Whether someone else is "more deserving" in your view, or even the Peace Prize Committee's view, is irrelevant.  That's not their mandate.

              We progressives need to stop playing in the conservative moral sandbox.  This was a gift, not an earning.  In progressive morality, you don't have to "deserve" gifts; you accept them with gratitude (as the president did) and, ideally, try to use the gift to best effect for others (as the president pledged).

              •  Endless rec's! Best post I've read on the topic. (0+ / 0-)

                If the world ran on "deserves" yours would be the final post on a beaten-to-death subject.

                "I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals..." -- G. K. Chesterton

                by teachme2night on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 06:18:25 AM PDT

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        •  It's not their "fault" that it's an important... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raster44, kestrel9000

          "INTERNATIONAL" award. Actually it is a Scandinavian award which the international community cares a lot, but it is still a local (Scandinavian) award.

          When Alfred Nobel came up with his price, he didn't mean to be an "important international award". It was an award like any other and it is an award like any other.

          People do have the right to express their opinions about it. People have the right to consider it an unimportant award, because it is awarded by "a handful of rich Norwegians". But people don't have the right to vote, because it is their award.

          Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate... leads to suffering...

          by JackLord on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 05:20:05 AM PDT

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    •  What do you even know abut members... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raster44, LynneK

      ...of the committee? Who are they? How many of them? What are their backgrounds? Are they, in fact, all white? Do you have a basis for calling the a bunch of rich, ivory tower Norwegians or are you just talking out of your Texas-sized ass?

    •  One's world view is influenced by the people (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raster44, LynneK

      to whom one's relatives have been/are married?  That seems a bit of a stretch.

      Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way. Booker T. Washington

      by conlakappa on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 01:50:47 AM PDT

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    •  Ultimately, I Suppose, (0+ / 0-)

      the view of most Kossacks in this thread is that the "limited perspective" of a lone Texan -- no matter how big -- is more severely limited than that of a "handful of rich white Euros (sic)."

      "Give me but one firm spot to stand, and I will move the earth." -- Archimedes

      by Limelite on Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 06:41:38 AM PDT

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