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View Diary: Breaking -- EPA analysis of Kerry-Boxer: nominal costs, huge benefits (111 comments)

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  •  Some obstructionism coming from within (4+ / 0-)

    Some roadblocks to green energy development are being put up by groups we might not expect...environmentalists.  There are solar energy projects in California's desert, and wind power projects in a number of states, that are being tied up by court challenges due to fears that there may be some negative impact on birds, bats, etc.

    I put a lot of emphsis on a candidate's environmental stances when pulling the lever in a voting booth, but I have to say that a lot of my fellow environmentalists have a hard time with "cost-benefit" analysis.

    Here are a couple of links worth looking at, but there are many other examples, and perhaps this diarist , whom I respect and always enjoy reading, might address down the road the infighting within the Green Movement on these issues.

    Say what you will about the Ten Commandments, you must always come back to the pleasant fact that there are only ten of them. H. L. Mencken

    by Keith930 on Sat Oct 24, 2009 at 06:28:35 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I don't like the obstructionism (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      karenc, ybruti, ibjg

      (more purity from purists in a way), but I do agree that distributed networks make better sense than creating huge utilities on the model of coal/nuke plants.  Low rise subdivisions are the perfect places to transform into solar panel fields, as opposed to industrializing more open land.

      The "O, it's just empty desert" / "They're just mountains" attitude is ignorant of the ecosystems involved (similar in a way to the arguers for mountaitop removal mining).  

      I can't think of anybody who's ever changed my mind about anything by yelling at me and telling me how morally superior they are.

      by Urizen on Sat Oct 24, 2009 at 07:52:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A huge solar project (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        planned for the Panoche Valley in Calif. is rightly opposed by the Audubon Society.  It would harm a major area used by migrating birds in the winter.  For details about the project see:  Fresnoaudubon


        Panoche Valley is home of the Blunt-nosed Leopard Lizard, Giant Kangaroo Rat, Kit Fox, Mountain Plovers, Long-billed Curlews, Burrowing Owls, and more. All of these creatures live on the valley floor, which is where the biggest impact would take place, if this project were to happen.  Link

    •  There are massive balancing issues (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      beachmom, Rei

      and 'local' activists / environmentalists are fighting those local battles often without consideration of the larger impacts.

      There was a WashPost article earlier in the week that I plan to write on. There is a wind development being fought due to uncertain risks to bats.  Bat kills are a real issue,something to be considered in development of wind projects, but the advocate for the bats totally lost me that even one bat killed by wind turbines would make this multi-hundred+ megawatt field unacceptable. Did he ever consider that the pollution from coal-fired electricity might be harming bats (and other species) and that global warming places a far more serious threat to the wind turbines? Likely not.  That one bat hit by a wind turbine blade, fallen by the wind turbine pole, is a visible kill, with a tangible impact much greater on the human psyche than the 100s or 1000s times more threatened directly by coal pollution and indirectly from that pollution by global warming.

      Sigh ...

      •  sometimes you have to cut off a foot (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        in order to save the leg.

        I'll take renewable energy over a Blunt Nosed Leopard Lizzard, but that's just one urbanite's (from a heavily forested state) opinion.

        Say what you will about the Ten Commandments, you must always come back to the pleasant fact that there are only ten of them. H. L. Mencken

        by Keith930 on Sat Oct 24, 2009 at 09:11:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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