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View Diary: Breaking: BLS, Fed, BEA, et al "Overstate Strength of Economy" (289 comments)

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  •  This is more than a little Hyper Bowl, methinks (6+ / 0-)

    Everything you knew is wrong!

    Well, no.

    Everything we know is data which doesn't tell the whole story.

    For instance  ... 10% unemployment doesn't just hurt the unemployed person - it hurts their whole family, their circle of friends, etc.

    More unemployment means more welfare, which means more government spending, which means more outlays, which means less real revenue.

    Now ... having said that, the GDP numbers are "apples to apples" comparisons.  3.5% GDP growth is real, but as you mentioned, it doesn't tell the whole story.

    "It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses." - CS Lewis, Weight of Glory

    by Benintn on Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 04:51:35 AM PST

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    •  Yeah, that NYT reporting on a conference... (17+ / 0-)
      ...with all those quotes from those folks from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and other government agencies...totally without credibility...LOL!

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 04:59:27 AM PST

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    •  But GDP is meaningless at the moment (7+ / 0-)

      isn't it. With Govt being a huge contributor to that number via Stimulus, bailouts etc, it a fore gone conclusion that GDP would rise. But all this Govt spending is borrowed and printed money, so that makes GDP a ghost number at least until the Govt goes back to normal spending levels.

      Q: What do you call 500 Congress-slugs at the bottom of the ocean? A: Divine intervention. (with apologies to the couple dozen honest ones.)

      by CitizenOfEarth on Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 05:14:26 AM PST

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    •  Yes - it's contrarian hoo-hah (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jiffypop, Lying eyes, kefauver

      Lots of people revel and relish being contrarians - up is actually down, pollution is really good for you, global warming is actually global cooling, etc.

      This diary blows goat chunks so hard because it's a long-winded emotional tirade. The better economic analysis we get is cool and deliberate, while bobswern here is running around, waving the bloody shirt.

      Not helpful and non-insightful.

      Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

      by The Raven on Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 06:14:12 AM PST

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    •  Real GDP? (5+ / 0-)

      Now ... having said that, the GDP numbers are "apples to apples" comparisons.  3.5% GDP growth is real, but as you mentioned, it doesn't tell the whole story.

      The GDP numbers are reported in this diary, as in the NYT, to now be known to be falsely inflated. The economists responsible admit that "US product" numbers are often inflated by including imports in the data. Which also throws off employment stats that are derived from production numbers assumed to be "US production", that turn out to be foreign production - and therefore foreign employment.

      The problem with the GDP numbers is that they tell more than the whole story, by including extra stories as "American". The 3.5% GDP growth according those inflated numbers means the real GDP growth is less than 3.5%. As for "apples to apples", if the amount of foreign production counted as "US" has varied in the past, as it surely has, then there's no "apples to apples" going on here.

      These GDP and employment numbers are starting to be as useless as those cooked up by the economics office next door, which rated risks of traded derivatives.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 07:53:28 AM PST

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      •  happy (0+ / 0-)

        yep, happy talk propaganda is all it is.

        "Never mind the declining US you see all around you, everything is good,, trust us,  here is some cooked numbers to explain it all"

        (regarding the bank mess) They want to cure the patient but not deal with the disease.

        by dark daze on Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 09:37:08 AM PST

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    •  Think you missed the point. (0+ / 0-)

      Gross Domestic Product.

      What's being debated is whether this is in fact domestic goods and services being created.

      We have the Current Accounts to show trade imbalance.  If we are in fact funneling stimulus to create goods and services elsewhere and laundering that through Corporate balance sheets in America and making a dishonest tally of GDP it's not the kind of apple I want to bite into.

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