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View Diary: The Corporate Empire Strikes Back: Corporate Dems Seek "Alternative" To Public Option. Again. (252 comments)

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  •  A massive WIN for Dems is just sitting there, (12+ / 0-)

    waiting patiently for us to create a clusterfuck.

    Please Dems, snatch victory from the jaws of, well, victory this time!

    The Republican party is sabotaging America's recovery for political gain

    by A Runner on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 08:13:12 AM PST

    •  Yup (7+ / 0-)

      The GOP is really just sitting back and waiting for Dems to f- this up.  Because they know that some of their senatorial colleagues on the other side of the aisle are just as corrupt as the GOP is.

      "We don't get shit done either but at least we won't tax you or make you buy insurance from Blue Cross."---GOP's winning platform in 2010, mark my words

      If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress.--Nobel Peace Prize Recipient President Obama

      by GN1927 on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 08:49:59 AM PST

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      •  GN1927, given your understanding of the (6+ / 0-)

        dynamic in play here, I hope that you'll come around to supporting the FDL strategy.

        Arguably, it was the threat that the House Progressives would vote no on a bill that didn't contain a strong PO that got us a House bill that was much less weak than it might otherwise have been.  

        We saw the same thing with the Stupak amendment.  That piece of crap got to the floor because Pelosi feared his block would torpedo the bill without it.

        For a threat to work it must be credible.  Our job as activists is to empower the House Progressives (by means of carrots and sticks) to draw a clear, deep line in the sand:  No PO?  No HCR.  That is the ONLY influence we'll have over the Senate - the knowledge that the House won't approve a conference bill without it.

        You are absolutely correct that the GOP's winning platform in 2010 and 2012 will be that the Dems forced everyone to buy insurance and failed to make it affordable.

        I SO want to believe it's 11DC.

        by WisePiper on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 09:19:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And so it's your contention (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WisePiper, greenearth

          that the senate is completely unresponsive to pressure from the grassroots and there are votes for a strong PO that can be whipped from the center?  I'm not sure that I agree with this.  And I really cannot sign onto a strategy which risks painting the Congressional Progressive Caucus as responsible for weak legislation.  I definitely take your points; we can agree to disagree.

          If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress.--Nobel Peace Prize Recipient President Obama

          by GN1927 on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 09:33:44 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think the Senate is and has been responsive. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GN1927, thethinveil

            Unfortunately, with the current makeup (only 60 in the caucus) it just takes ONE to fuck it up.  And we have two, it appears, who are totally UNresponsive.  The House "no" threat would be a means of forcing Reid to take the PO element of the bill to reconciliation.  I don't see any other way at this point.

            I SO want to believe it's 11DC.

            by WisePiper on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 09:40:18 AM PST

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            •  Why can't we run ads and whatever else we (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              GN1927, thethinveil

              need against those Senators?

              •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                thethinveil

                Call constituents, write letters to the editor, etc.  The senate is going to be problematic in terms of a public option; no reason that we shouldn't start to focus on whipping votes from the center.

                If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress.--Nobel Peace Prize Recipient President Obama

                by GN1927 on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 11:00:20 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

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