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View Diary: The Catholic Church does something despicable (again) (120 comments)

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  •  Okay... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shirl In Idaho

    I'm just curious, if I were to start a religion based on the idea that Jesus was against the Catholic Church (because he never mentioned them in the bible) and that our main belief was to make sure that the Catholic Church lost its tax exempt status, then the Catholic Church would be powerless to stop me or even complain because they would be violating my first amendment rights?

    Really, what gay people should do is declare being gay their religion.  

    •  Nope (0+ / 0-)

      Not at all, where did you get that idea? If you founded a church on that notion, you'd be free to advocate for it as you wished, and the Catholic Church would be free to complain however they wished, tell Congress not to listen to you (and you could likewise tell Congress not to listen to them), or ignore you entirely.

      It's not a violation of First Amendment rights to express opposition to you. It's a violation of the First Amendment to try to get the state to silence your critics.

      Do you understand that the First Amendment is about preventing the government from silencing speakers or endorsing religion (among other things)?

      Sean Parnell
      President
      Center for Competitive Politics

      Congress shall make no law...

      by Sean Parnell on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 10:04:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I fail to see... (7+ / 0-)

        How taking away a church's tax exempt status is 'silencing them'.  I don't have tax exempt status, and I don't feel silenced.  

        What the Catholic Church is attempting to do in D.C. is force everyone to accept their bigoted position that gays should not be allowed to marry by withholding charitable funds.  Fine, go ahead, I'm simply advocating that by doing that, the Church should lose any extra privileges it had as a non-political entity, when clearly it is not behaving as such.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander.  

        •  According to his link Sean is a right-wing troll (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dreaming of Better Days

          who advocates doing away with campaign finance reform and other limits to the wealthy &/or corporations buying our government out from under us...

          "I teach Sunday School Mutherf&@#er!"-S.Colbert

          by Independant Man on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 10:48:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  here's why (0+ / 0-)

          You're having the government take action against an entity based on it's political speech.

          If you believe that no churches, of whatever denomination or political leanings, should have a tax exempt status, then that's fine, and a position I can respect. But if you're arguing, as I think you are (happy to apologize if I'm wrong), that because the Catholic Church has taken on this particular stance, it should lose it's tax exempt status, then what you are doing is advocating that a church be treated differently than others because it fails to conform its perspective to yours.

          Let me ask this: should the Methodist church I walked by in DC a few weeks ago, near the U.S. Capitol, lose its tax exempt status because of the message board out front reading "Health Care for All - NOW!"? Seems to me like that's a church injecting itself into a political discussion.

          Sean Parnell
          President
          Center for Competitive Politics

          Congress shall make no law...

          by Sean Parnell on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 11:09:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The church (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            boran2

            is already being treated differently than everyone else, by virtue of it's tax-exempt status.

            That status comes with certain rules laid out in advance.

            Can't abide by those very sensible rules? Lose your special status. Simple really.

            "I teach Sunday School Mutherf&@#er!"-S.Colbert

            by Independant Man on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 11:15:47 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But I already know it's pointless engaging you (0+ / 0-)

              you follow the golden rule:

              "He who has the gold makes the rules"

              "I teach Sunday School Mutherf&@#er!"-S.Colbert

              by Independant Man on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 11:17:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  You clearly don't understand that status (0+ / 0-)

              Yes, the Catholic Church gets it's tax exempt status as a result of it's adherence to very particular rules laid out in advance (ditto for any other Church, a university, the Sierra Club, unions, etc.).

              What I'm saying is, what the Catholic Church is doing in no way violates those rules. So they don't lose their very special status (not that special really - nearly every church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other organized worship group has it as well, it's not like there's some special "catholic tax exemption" in the code).

              Sean Parnell
              President
              Center for Competitive Politics

              Congress shall make no law...

              by Sean Parnell on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 11:23:05 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  No, I do understand the status (0+ / 0-)

                I personally think that the statute should be re-written so that advocating discrimination would be grounds for losing tax-exempt status.

                Nice walk-back too:

                not that special really

                but "special" nonetheless

                And yes, I would be fine with all churches & religious groups being taxed, or denying them city services like fire dept response.

                "I teach Sunday School Mutherf&@#er!"-S.Colbert

                by Independant Man on Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 11:28:58 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, every church... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Independant Man

            should lose their tax exempt status.  Done and done.  As to the Catholic Church, back in the day they used to meet secretly in caves and such, there's nothing in the first amendment that guarantees they should get to meet in castles (cathedrals) now.  Back to your crowded town halls and public parks!

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