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View Diary: Mixed Decision on Detainee Prosecutions (177 comments)

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  •  um (0+ / 0-)

    the point is that these people won't get fair trials. the comment to which i was responding was giving tacit approval to separating the prisoners into two classes- those who will get fair trials and those who won't. the separation into the two classes being made without any due process.

    now, maybe you actually have a point, and maybe you're just into eristic gibberish, but ignoring the context of my comment doesn't make you look smart.

    •  I'm really not interested in how I look to you. (1+ / 0-)
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      I'm interested in the actual problems raised by these cases, and you seem determined not to think about them, but to wish them away.

      You keep trying to define away the problem, but it stubbornly remains.  Your feelings about me, and your insecure need to demean my intelligence because I askd hard kweschuns doesn't change that.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 11:57:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  your questions (0+ / 0-)

        are neither hard nor stubborn. they're not even on point. which is the point.

        we have due process. we legally define people as innocent until proven guilty. for us to call someone a crook is not the same as the government calling him a crook, and holding him prisoner for years without due process.

        was that so difficult?

        •  In fact, they are on point. (1+ / 0-)
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          Your argument is that we needn't worry about the problem of guilty terrorists going free because of evidentiary issues, because until they are convicted in a court of law using the standards of evidence that hold in federal civilian courts, we can't possibly know if they are, in fact, guilty terrorists.

          Well, bull.  We knew that Bernie Madoff was guilty, because there was a mountain of evidence.  If some problem in the investigation led to the charges being dismissed against him, he would still be guilty as sin.

          Similarly, there are doubtless cases in which there are guilty-as-hell terrorists against whom there is a mountain of evidence, who have not yet been convicted, and who might see that mountain of evidence thrown out, because at some stage in its gathering, the investigators did something illegal.  The investigators' screw-up doesn't change their guilt; they still did it.

          was that so difficult?

          That's not even remotely difficult.  Let me give you a head's up: if you think a disagreement with me, or anyone who writes and argues even half as intelligently as me, is based on your opponent not understanding something as childishly simplistic as "we have due process," then YOU, YES YOU are missing something.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:12:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  evidentiary issues? (0+ / 0-)

            now, i understand. you don't believe in the rule of law. people can be convicted and punished, whether or not we can prove their guilt. because we can trust our intuitions and our leaders to do what's right, even without their being able to prove that they're right. got it. thanks.

            •  Piss off. (0+ / 0-)

              You're just calling me a bad person to make yourself feel better, because you're not interested in or capable of considering the other side of the argument.

              I've met a lot of people like you.  They're mostly wingnuts, and they rarely bring anything useful to a debate, either.

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:31:49 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  no (0+ / 0-)

                i'm calling you someone who has no problem with people being detained indefinitely without due process. i'm sure you have met plenty of wingnuts. they don't believe in due process, either.

                •  Well, you're wrong. Quote me the part where... (0+ / 0-)

                  I said such a thing, or apologize.

                  I've raised questions, and since you can't bring yourself even to think about them, you've done what dumb political thinkers always do: put a label on me, regardless of its accuracy, and then told yourself that you don't have to think about what my sort of people say.

                  A sad performance.

                  Art is the handmaid of human good.

                  by joe from Lowell on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:43:15 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  you keep repeating yourself (0+ / 0-)

                    and you keep avoiding the real point that you're making. i'll stand by the concept of rule of law, and you can stand by whatever circular illogic you enjoy.

                    •  So, you have nothing to back up your statement. (0+ / 0-)

                      So you just say it again.

                      I trust that you would have happily thrown anything I said in opposition to due process and the rule of law back in my face, if you could have found any, but you couldn't.

                      So, instead of acknowledging that like a man, you continue with your hissy fit.

                      You're a sad like worm of a human being, aren't you?

                      Art is the handmaid of human good.

                      by joe from Lowell on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:54:55 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  "You keep avoiding the real point you're making." (0+ / 0-)

                      Have you considered the possibility that I'M NOT MAKING THAT POINT?

                      I'm not a shy person.  If I have a point to make, I make it.  To a more honest, intelligent person than yourself, the fact that I haven't made the point you're so desperate to assign to me would indicate that it's not my point.

                      But what would you know about how an honest, intelligent person would debate?

                      Art is the handmaid of human good.

                      by joe from Lowell on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:56:32 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

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