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View Diary: The Master's Tools ..... (149 comments)

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  •  Every boycott diary... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    teloPariah

    ...is divisive.  Joan's diary was the most divisive of them all, which was no doubt why it was deleted mere hours after it appeared, despite Meteor Blades' admonition that diaries with more than 100 comments shouldn't be deleted.  

    Every diary on this subject is written to provoke.  And I've addressed the substance of soothsayer's comparisons and I've found them wanting.  In the spirit of this diary, shouldn't we take note of the differences?

    No trial, no due process versus trial and due process

    Democrats not campaigning on anti-homeless people platforms and legislation versus Democrats campaigning with anti-gay bigots and on anti-gay legislation.

    Restrictions on federally funded abortion versus elimination of all abortion coverage in the private market via Stupak's amendment to Obama's proposed exchange.

    But this is just a mojo fest for the anti-boycott crowd.  There was never any interest in discussing these things.  

    •  Actually, you're the one (8+ / 0-)

      being divisive and provocative.  And you have misread this diary, which is one of inclusion.  You're inadvertantly making the diarist's point, as well.  You're working in an either/or; my issue/your issue dominance/power framework, when there should be creativity and cooperation.

      If you'd like to join Avarosis and Hamsher in their choice to behave oppositionally to the Obama administration, as Markos has done, no one can stop you.  But as should have been clear to the participants of this strategy from the beginning, this is a risky maneuver which risks alienation those who would otherwise be working alongside you; if that working alongside you is insufficient (i.e., refusal to condemn incremental progress), then so be it.  I don't know what more to say.

      If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress.--Nobel Peace Prize Recipient President Obama

      by GN1927 on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 06:59:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes you consider difference of opinion... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        teloPariah

        ...divisive and provocative.  As do many of the boycott supporters.  But it isn't, it is simply a difference of opinion.  

        And really GN1927, you can stop with the veiled threats of risking "alienation."  That presupposes a prior commitment, the evidence for which is lacking.  Apart from words, and we all know that politicians, like lawyers, are wordsmiths; it doesn't reveal much about their actual beliefs.  

        I don't think anyone has condemned incremental progress; I think they've deemed it insufficient.  And as I explained Sunday, "incremental progress" is in the eye of the beholder.  I consider the repeal of DADT incremental progress, for example; as is the passage of ENDA.  

        Anyway....you ignored my criticism of the comparisons entirely.  Which is fitting.

        •  No, (4+ / 0-)

          I consider the choice to come into a diary which is discussing the necessity of sticking together with a "my way or the highway" set of comments to be divisive and provocative.

          You could have easily made the argument that yes, there does seem to be a prioritization of issues which are more important to people with some degree of empowerment, but the diarist is wrong in linking causation, and here's why, etc.

          Instead, you chose to engage multiple people here in a combative fashion.  And the response has been extremely mild and gentle, in comparison with how I've seen some other people treated on this site.

          I don't think anyone has condemned incremental progress

          LOL.

          If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress.--Nobel Peace Prize Recipient President Obama

          by GN1927 on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 07:14:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  this is all a derailing tactic anyway (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GN1927, JoanMar, soothsayer99, QES

            alec doesn't care a thing about this diary, what is about and who it may be speaking to.

            he's already bragged about his "list" and i guess this is just another way to get a certain segment of daily kos to go away, or to punish them for...various reasons.

            A ugly person who goes after a pretty person gets nothing but trouble. But a pretty person who goes after a ugly person gets at least cab fare.

            by princessglitterboots on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 07:19:28 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Exactly (5+ / 0-)

              This is a congregation of his enemy's list and so he's here to punish us, lol.

              Whatever.

              This is just such a lovely and inspiring diary that even behavior like that can't ruin the mood.

              Did you see Urizen's comment below?

              Seems to me the primary Master's Tools (2+ / 0-)
              are demonization and alienation: the simplistic logic that spawned "if you're not with us you're with the terrorists" and all that.

              The master's tools are about consolidating power, creating leverage for specific interests.

              This is the kind of analysis which used to be all over the site.

              If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress.--Nobel Peace Prize Recipient President Obama

              by GN1927 on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 07:24:15 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  You continue to insinuate racism... (0+ / 0-)

              ...without any basis at all, apart from criticism of the administration or disagreements on this blog.  Yet you are the one who happily removed a hidden comment by a well known anti-Arab poster from the hidden comments because he agreed with you on the boycott.  What reasonable inference should I make from that? Even GN1927 pulled the uprate of that one after it was pointed out.

              You really are a piece of work.  Your baseless accusations are just that.

              •  Get this baggage out of here already (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                soothsayer99, QES

                Enough, Alec.  Either contribute to what is shaping up to be an excellent comments section or just leave.

                If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress.--Nobel Peace Prize Recipient President Obama

                by GN1927 on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 07:30:16 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  No (0+ / 0-)

                  If PGB is going to accuse me of racism (and you apparently agree with it), I'm not going to just let it go unanswered.  

                  •  And so instead (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    princessglitterboots, QES

                    of contributing your insights and expertise, you'd rather troll.

                    Instead of contributing your recommendations of works by successful organizers and thinkers, you'd rather run around here slapping at your enemy's list.

                    Either contribute or leave at this point.  This diary was not set up in a hateful or combative fashion, which is reflected in the comments section.  Either add your own creativity or leave others to enjoy this.

                    If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress.--Nobel Peace Prize Recipient President Obama

                    by GN1927 on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 07:35:47 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  this is NOT a boycott diary -- this speaks to (4+ / 0-)

      many divisions that long preceed that..

    •  Actually I don't advocate a boycott (4+ / 0-)

      and i'm GLBT. I am nowhere near as politically astute as you Alec, and i want you to keep writing your comments. Havong said that, if someone brings up a point of contention, why don't you advocate instead of letting yourself get frustrated. This is a blog, not the oval office. You can get your facts wrong and still be educated, that's why I continue here. I threw my hands up at making enemies. I have enough of those, 'cause I'm mean.

      "But then, liberals always were a little fond of mind control, assuming of course that it was put to good use." -DKos troll

      by teloPariah on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 08:38:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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