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View Diary: "She's decided against treatment. A reasonable decision under the circumstances." (226 comments)

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  •  Actually a hernia is where a loop of intestine (7+ / 0-)

    pokes through a weak spot in the abdominal muscle. A hiatal hernia is where the upper portion of the stomach is pressed up through the opening in the diaphragm where the esophagus passes through. The hiatal hernia isn't very amenable to surgery, the rate of recurrence is high. The abdominal hernia is a significant nuisance, but is only dangerous if it strangulates or sequesters too much of the bowel.

    Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. The Druid

    by FarWestGirl on Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 11:37:32 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Abdominal hernias (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      melo, dejavu, JasperJohns

      Are largely wounds of ignorance or unfitness.  They don't need to happen.  So I believe anyway.

      Whenever you are using your body in a way you do no commonly use it you have to be aware of the muscles you are using for the task and how they are operating.

      I'd be interested to see some social research on people who get them.

      Eventually we are going to have to teach meditation and the Alexander Technique in schools.

      Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

      by Demena on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 12:42:38 AM PST

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      •  I got mine in the army doing stomach crunches (8+ / 0-)

        where you lift your legs and upper body at the same time. True, hiatial hernias like mine are hard to treat, but I disagree that they are wounds of ignorance or unfitness, they can be obtained by people pushing through their bounds of pain in search of better fitness.

        Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

        by rktect on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 02:22:07 AM PST

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        •  You prove my point. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ms scarlett leadpipe

          If pushing through the bounds of pain while exercising is not ignorance then I know what is.  You are even ignoring what your body is telling you.

          Pleasurable soreness, pleasurable effort, those are one thing, but ignoring alarm klaxons is, well, just unwise.

          I know all about crunches, I do them regularly still.  I lost thirty kilo doing crunches.  Well used muscle does not like to be marbled with fat.  I got back into the same size pants I grew out of at eighteen.

          Effective exercise is as much about muscle control as anything else.  Ever notice how much harder it can be to do something slowly?

          Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

          by Demena on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 04:18:23 AM PST

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          •  Some of us have to make living. (11+ / 0-)

            It is obvious you have never worked on a construction site, say as a mason's helper, or worked in heavy manufacturing like the auto industry.

            How did the stones vote this time? They voted for hardness and few words. And the men? They voted against themselves and for fire which they could not control.

            by lightfoot on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 04:48:07 AM PST

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            •  Um. (0+ / 0-)

              When something that is false is 'obvious' you need to re-examine your thinking.

              I used to spend University vacations as a hod carrier so you are just plain wrong.
              I spent bottom level time in the auto industry too.

              Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

              by Demena on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 01:34:38 PM PST

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              •  Yet you maintain that hernias are (0+ / 0-)

                "wounds of ignorance or unfitness". Have you ever heard of "accidents"? Do you deny that such events happen in the actual real world?

                Of course we should all train ourselves to minimize accidents but no matter how hard we try they will still happen.

                Even when working as a member of the super-safety conscious UAW I was the victim of a minor accident, with a 5" x 8" piece of razor-sharp metal being flung into my face. The scar on my upper lip is still visible today after these many years.

                In the same generally safe work environment, a man was killed on my shift, crushed by merciless large machinery on the sheet metal guillotine. Nobody knew how he managed to do it, but it happened.'

                I imagine with all of your manual laboring experience, you must have been victim of or at least witness to accidents as well. Which was it that caused the accident, "ignorance or unfitness"?

                News flash: we are not superman and superwoman.

                Such arrogance, are you now employed in the field of medicine, perchance? It would fit the "blame the patient" philosophy that I have found so unique to the field.

                How did the stones vote this time? They voted for hardness and few words. And the men? They voted against themselves and for fire which they could not control.

                by lightfoot on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 03:12:34 PM PST

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                •  I maintain (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lightfoot

                  that by and large hernias are avoidable.  That largely they are wounds of ignorance or unfitness.  That is the general case.   It isn't every case.  All generalisations are flawed in that they seldom universal.

                  The only manual labor I did was on vacation time or in the army, but I have done some.  Enough to know how important muscular awareness and control can be.  Yes, I have witnessed accidents.  All the ones I witnessed were the result of carelessness or ignorance - even those that occurred to me.

                  No we are not super people but if we do not aspire to such, to improve, to better, to progress then what are we worth?

                  And, no I am not employed in medicine although a number of doctors have asked where I got my non-existent medical training.  And yes, I do find the medical field to allow a lot of blunders and many of them can be ascribed to a similar cause, ignorance or lack of attention.  But doctors don't get enough time to "consider" during consultations so it isn't really surprising that that should be so.  No doubt you will interpret that as me saying that that is ok.  It isn't and I'm not saying that.  With our current systems you can't expect much else though.

                  Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                  by Demena on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 03:29:11 PM PST

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                  •  I can agree with the following (0+ / 0-)

                    most hernias are avoidable

                    What I cannot agree with is your original statement

                    hernias are wounds of ignorance or unfitness.

                    That is too restrictive and too unforgiving. You yourself cite "carelessness" as being a possible cause. Sometimes our attention may be diverted, thus causing an accident. We are not machines.

                    The man I mentioned above that died in the industrial accident? He had bypassed all safety protocols that had been drilled into our brains. Deaths at GM plants are rare, "Safety First" was emphasized by management and Union alike. The accident was so extraordinary that some whispered "murder". But most likely he crawled under some fencing without pulling the safety plug, probably to retrieve some dropped keys or something similarly trivial, and for some reason the machine cycled and dropped several tons of stacked sheet metal on him. It was not ignorance and it was beyond carelessness: it was a fatal lapse of judgment.

                    How did the stones vote this time? They voted for hardness and few words. And the men? They voted against themselves and for fire which they could not control.

                    by lightfoot on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 06:05:16 PM PST

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                    •  No (0+ / 0-)

                      So don't agree. That doesn't affect its rectitude.

                      But most likely he crawled under some fencing without pulling the safety plug, probably to retrieve some dropped keys or something similarly trivial, and for some reason the machine cycled and dropped several tons of stacked sheet metal on him. It was not ignorance and it was beyond carelessness: it was a fatal lapse of judgment.

                      A careless fatal lapse of judgement.

                      Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                      by Demena on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 08:09:56 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I've refined my knowledge... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Demena

                        after some further reading on the topic I have concluded that

                        -Most hernias can be prevented by proper physical conditioning and adherence to safety protocols.

                        -Some hernias are congenital.[1][2]

                        -Some congenital hernias may not be expressed until later in life.[3][4]

                        -Some hernias tend to run in families and are due to a natural weakness in the abdominal muscles.[3][4]

                        -Some hernias develop along a weakness caused by a previous surgical incision. (This occurs after approximately 2% to 10% of all abdominal surgeries).[4]

                        -Some hernias are caused by fluid accumulation in the abdominal cavity.[4]

                        References
                        [1]J. W. Duckett, "Treatment of Congenital Inguinal Hernia", Ann Surg. 1952 June; 135(6): 879–884.

                        Also [1A]Congenital inguinal hernia(Explicit graphics may be disturbing)

                        [2]Congenital Diaphragmatic Hernia, Texas Pediatrical Surgical Associates, retrieved 2009-11-08.

                        [3] Hernia, Cleveland Clinic, retrieved 2009-11-08.

                        [4] Hernia, eMedicine Health (see pgs 1-2), retrieved 2009-11-08.

                        Discussions that result in learning are always welcomed by me, so I thank you.

                        How did the stones vote this time? They voted for hardness and few words. And the men? They voted against themselves and for fire which they could not control.

                        by lightfoot on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 06:02:05 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  So then, you finally agree.... (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          lightfoot

                          -Most hernias can be prevented by proper physical conditioning and adherence to safety protocols.

                          That is pretty much exactly what I said, isn't it?

                          Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                          by Demena on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:27:49 PM PST

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                        •  By the way (0+ / 0-)

                          The fact that you bothered to find out the truth and find the facts of the matter is something I think worthy of note.  It is something we all should do but all too seldom our opinions are regarded as out facts.  Well done.

                          Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                          by Demena on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 07:53:08 PM PST

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        •  I have a hiatal hernia. (0+ / 0-)

          With GERD.  Lots of random dry heaves and yerking.

          The way to combat noxious ideas is with other ideas. The way to combat falsehoods is with truth. - William O. Douglas

          by PSzymeczek on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 12:15:11 PM PST

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      •  Alexander Technique, wow 30 yrs ago I learned it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson

        as a theatre technique.

        "Be convinced that to be happy means to be free and that to be free means to be brave." - Thucydides

        by JasperJohns on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 06:21:47 AM PST

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      •  Not always true (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, highacidity, lightfoot

        because they also happen in children, who haven't even had much chance to use their muscles.

        •  Thanks. (0+ / 0-)

          Yes, they haven't had much time to learn to use their muscles.   Incorrect use at the wrong time/place and instant hernia.  Yeppo.

          Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

          by Demena on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 01:37:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Some people are born with them... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        highacidity, lightfoot

        We have lots of little kids with hernias.  It's  a defect in closure of the processus vaginalis during embryological development.

        We've got serious work to do. Health care and civil rights for all, please!

        by the dogs sockpuppet on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 11:13:32 AM PST

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    •  Not true (7+ / 0-)

      A hernia is any dislocation of an organ or tissue into a place other than the one it normally inhabits.  Inguinal hernias are most common.  The situation you describe can occur in hernias; if the intestinal loop gets stuck it's an incarcerated hernia.  If that intestinal loop gets its blood supply pinched off it's a strangulated hernia.  Both are surgical emergencies and will receive prompt treatment.  Both are also quite unusual.

      It is up to us now. RIP, Teddy.

      by Dallasdoc on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 05:46:13 AM PST

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      •  Agreed, ie herniated disc, etc. The commenter (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, Dallasdoc, lightfoot

        was referring to abdominal hernias and I specified too narrowly.

        Once saw a repair in my surgical rotation that was literally the size of a basketball. Guy finally came in because of the constipation. Amazing.

        Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. The Druid

        by FarWestGirl on Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 06:44:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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