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View Diary: Is This What Democrats Stand For? (78 comments)

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  •  Stable state? (5+ / 0-)

    in this century? or in five more?

    Define a stable Afghanistan.

    A few give much, a few give all, and most Americans give....NOTHING! ~~~ Support our troops - Bring them home

    by Hound Dog on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:48:20 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Hence the moral difficulty (3+ / 0-)

      If one can't acknowledge that this issue is full of moral difficulties, then that person isn't dealing in reality.

      To leave immediately will result in an unstable state.  To stay and fight will not result in a stable state.  

      It's a matter of what we stay and do.  

      Simply leaving after the damage that we've done is irresponsible in both a political and moral sense.  If we just leave right now, politically we will be the focus of the anger for the people who are left to clean up their lives and the world around them.  The Taliban will gladly be the beneficiaries of that anger.  Morally, we will have the problem of one president having caused the situation, but a second would not have cleaned up the mess.  Obama can't simply leave and say that it was Bush's war and that he has nothing to do with it.  

      The Taliban is not a great threat.  They are not the reason to be in Afghanistan.  

      Staying and fighting is also a moral and political issue.  Those issues are simpler to define.  

      If the decision is made to change the policy, or I should say, if the decision is made to just determine a policy, then it should be one that recognizes that we are obligated to remain and assist in rebuilding what we have broken.  Unfortunately, any assistance to that rebuilding effort will no doubt be the target of attacks, so there will need to be defensive forces there for that purpose.  

      Pessimism is an abject failure and will never live up to its promise. Skepticism as well, I have my doubts about it.

      by otto on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:39:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good comment! (4+ / 0-)

        and I have to take a break from the screen for a bit, but I sure as hell will reply!  thanks

        A few give much, a few give all, and most Americans give....NOTHING! ~~~ Support our troops - Bring them home

        by Hound Dog on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:45:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  A number of thoughts in reply. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cassiodorus, Edger

        I'm trying to think of some short answers instead of long ones.

        Simply leaving after the damage that we've done is irresponsible in both a political and moral sense.

        If foreign states stopped invading and occupying Afghan, wouldn't this be good?

        There's no instant way out.  We could redeploy most of our troops in a year, leaving a few hundred or thousand tasked to fight against the few actual inernational jihadists.

        I don't know who appointed the U S of A to be God.  The US government has a tendency to fuck things up in distant parts of the world that it poorly understands and thinks it can "fix".

        Our Armed Forces are not to be confused with social workers.  their role is to provide for the common defense of the US, and to use them for international social workers and constables is misuse and abuse of same.

        NGOs and aid agencies can help, but Pastuns don't really want foreigners coming in and invading them.  They like it when outsiders stay the hell off their property.

        A few give much, a few give all, and most Americans give....NOTHING! ~~~ Support our troops - Bring them home

        by Hound Dog on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 03:45:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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