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View Diary: CafePress out Hoffmans Hoffman - Reversing Reversal on Psalm 109:8 (304 comments)

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  •  Why do they even have a psalm for that? (4+ / 0-)

    "I wish you luck on not hating your parents for mixing up such an unthinkable person." --The frickin´ HP--

    by McWaffle on Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 10:54:17 AM PST

    •  Please understand (20+ / 0-)

      The psalms reflect the mentality of a Bronze age people. They had a far more primitive concept of God and a far more primitive concept of justice. They lived in a very hostile world, where if you weren't the invader, you were the ones being invaded. Modern Christians ought to know this, but one of the critical intellectual errors fundamentalism does when it interprets the Bible is that is takes everything in an uneducated, unnuanced and ahistorical view.

      -8.50, -7.64 "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was within me an invincible summer." - Camus

      by croyal on Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 10:59:29 AM PST

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    •  in its full context, the psalm... (10+ / 0-)

      is a lament of a decent person who is being pursued by unjust people who try to kill him and ruin his family (and verses 7-12 describe that). In other words, these verses must invoke the reader's outrage and shame over an abhorrent deed. But guess what - wingnuts are just as ignorant in scripture interpretation as in everything else.

    •  "Henotheism" - My god can beat up your god (5+ / 0-)

      It comes out of a religious tradition of paganism and pluralism, with a fundamental belief that there are many gods, and that the LORD of Israel is stronger than the "false gods" and "idols" of other tribes/groups/nations.

      What's interesting to note is that Islam helped, regionally, to end some of this "my god can beat up your god" mentality by introducing the philosophical concept that we all serve ONE God, and that we are all called to one moral standard.

      The good thing about this attitude is that it's inclusive (in ways that Obama is with his call to "universal human values").  The bad thing is that it isn't always respectful of diversity, and sometimes stifles dissent.

      There are plenty of Christianists (people who believe that Jesus is the only way and that you have to pray the magical "Jesus Prayer" - Lord, I'm a sinner, etc. - in order to be "saved") who still think in "my god can beat up your god" terms.  But most Christians today realize that while we trust in Jesus for our salvation, it is ultimately God who saves us and not ourselves ... and therefore God can (in God's mercy) save whomever God wants to, not because we're worthy, but because God is merciful and gracious.

      "It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses." - CS Lewis, Weight of Glory

      by Benintn on Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 11:32:16 AM PST

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    •  A lot of folks have wondered that (3+ / 0-)

      The author is pouring out some pretty heavy emotions and basically asking God to send destruction raining down on those persecuting him (the author.) Since it's a song, he uses exaggerated and colorful language - it's not the translation.

      I will add that most mainline churches that use the Revised Common Lectionary for weekly scripture readings leave this one out.  Good choice.

      The truth always matters.

      by texasmom on Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 12:48:26 PM PST

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    •  That book is full of horrors. If we're going to (0+ / 0-)

      go rationalizing and making excuses for each instance, we're gonna be here a while.  

      At least where the psalms are concerned, we aren't getting into people telling us that the "inspired word of god" didn't really mean what it said or pretending that it makes any sense at all to ignore or skip over parts if one believes it to actually be the inspired word of god. The psalms are man's word which means that one could argue that they should be ignored altogether as the bible admonishes against man's religion.

      Picture a bright blue ball just spinnin' spinnin' free. It's dizzy with possibility.

      by lockewasright on Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 01:02:40 PM PST

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