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View Diary: A Conservative Radio Show announcer sees the light! (195 comments)

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  •  This sounds a lot like... (4.00)
    Oh, I don't know. Maybe the Dutch or French in 1940, or the Polish Jews in '39.

    Sorry, I'm not going to accept the "learn to live with them" argument. They need to be fought and reduced to political insignificance.

    (To be clear, I'm talking about the "Religious Right", not Christians or conservatives, or even conservative Christians.)

    "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite." - Bertrand Russell

    by Mad Dog Rackham on Sat Dec 18, 2004 at 09:08:46 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  read again, please (4.00)
      I didn't say 'grin and bear it,' I said 'we need to take them into account.'  Destroying the Religious Right is the pipe dream of an idiot, not a practical political position.  Right now, it is they that are destroying the Democratic Party, not vice versa.  In fact, they have so completely succeeded in defining the national political discourse that the Democratic Party is in a lose-lose position: either they move toward the right and lose to the real right-wingers, or they move to the left and, looking like fringe wing-nuts, lose the center.

      Proposing to 'destroy the Religious Right' in today's political climate is like a ten-year-old fantasizing about beating up that tough eighth-grader who shoves him around on the bus: amusing, comforting, no chance of happening.  The only chance that we have is to break the chain of ideological domination of the center by right-wing voices, which is not even close to the same thing.

      •  No, actually what you said... (none)
        ...is "We have to figure out how to live with them...".

        I read that as being very different than "take them into account."

        I'm not proposing any kind of frontal assault, nor am I looking for immediate success, but I've found in life that one rarely fully achieves ones goals. By aiming high, the final result is still good. If you only aim to "live with them," then the final result may well be that you don't end up living at all.

        We're in the situation we're in now precisely because too many Democrats have been willing to accept the "live with them" approach, apparently hoping for a few crumbs to fall their way. Having utterly failed and allowed our country to be put in grave jeopardy, now they tell us the answer is to do more of the same.

        Screw that.

        "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite." - Bertrand Russell

        by Mad Dog Rackham on Sat Dec 18, 2004 at 11:35:30 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  perhaps you will be so kind as (none)
          To allow me to define my own meaning.  Thanks.

          We're in the situation we're in now precisely because too many Democrats have been willing to accept the "live with them" approach, apparently hoping for a few crumbs to fall their way.

          This speaks to one possible reading of my post, but not the one I intended.  HTH.

          •  I'm not trying to be difficult... (none)
            ...but I guess your "live with them" was meant as "deal with them"? Close enough?

            If so, then perhaps we've got more common ground than I thought. But how do you deal with someone--who is clearly better at the game as it's played today--without becoming corrupt?

            Whenever someone suggests this, I can't help but think of Albert Speer: a brilliant, originally decent, man who was completely corrupted by those he dealt with. And yes, I do think the "Religious Right" is corrupt, with power to unleash great suffering.

            How do we "deal with" such people and keep our souls? The question is meant in all honesty. I'm open to suggestions of how to make it happen.

            "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite." - Bertrand Russell

            by Mad Dog Rackham on Sat Dec 18, 2004 at 08:20:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  ok (none)
              People who voted Republican aren't some sort of space aliens or something.  I don't think they're evil.  (Well, no more of them than is usual.)  We need to understand why they voted the way that they did and then bring them under our tent.

              I'll bet you that not one in ten Republican voters ever heard of dominionism, had ever been given the truth about Bush's wars in a non-partisan way, had ever lived in an environment in which economic liberalism was a socially acceptable position, etc.  We didn't 'reach' them.  (Then there's the hard core that we could never reach, but the same is true of the Democrats too; we are not free of irrational voters.)  Chuck D said on Air America that "at least the Republicans speak from the heart," and he's got a point; that's how the public sees it and, often, that's enough to tip an election.

      •  The only chance we have (none)
        Is to give them their right to speak

        and show them that
        separation of church and state means
        the govt stays out of the church.

        Bush will do the moral crashing on his own.

        ...people will always vote for the sunshine, not for the darkness

        by missliberties on Sat Dec 18, 2004 at 12:06:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Communists stuck around too (none)
      I know it's pretty harsh, but they don't believe in the US and what it stands for.  When the republicans said that Jews were more loyal to Israel than the U.S. they were projecting their own feelings yet again.  The religious right is the 5th Column of our times.  When someone like Falwell calls himself a Christian, it makes me want to spit.  It's appropriate that he was bailed out of financial problems by Moon.

      Too bad real Christians think you are attacking them when you say things like this, because that just provides cover for the religious right.

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